From GP to Full-Time HMO Investor: Dr. Michael Taylor’s Inspiring Journey

In this episode, I’m joined by Dr. Michael Taylor of Parable Property, who spent years working as a GP before deciding it was time for a complete change. Michael shares how he left behind the security of medicine to take on the uncertainty of building his own property portfolio - something many people dream about but few have the courage to actually do.

What I love about Michael’s story is how honest he is about the journey. He faced big setbacks at the start, but instead of walking away, he stuck with it, learned from the experience, and pushed forward. Today, he’s running a successful property business, supporting others, and proving what’s possible when you back yourself and commit.

This conversation is a brilliant reminder that it’s never too late to start again, and that persistence and resilience are often more important than getting everything right the first time.

Here’s what we cover in the episode:

• 02:34 Transitioning from Medicine to Property Investment
• 14:47 Overcoming Initial Setbacks in Property Deals
• 17:41 The Importance of Support and Networking
• 23:37 Choosing the Right Location for Investment
• 27:02 Building Relationships with Contractors
• 29:41 Diversifying into Supported Living

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Andy Graham: Hey, I'm Andy. I'm Andy, and you're listening to the HMO Podcast. Over 10 years ago, I set myself the challenge of building my own property portfolio, and what began as a short-term investment plan soon became a long-term commitment to change the way young people live together. I've now built several successful businesses.

[00:00:20] Andy Graham: I've raised millions of pounds of investment, and I've managed thousands of tenants, join me and some very special guests to discover the tips, tricks, and hacks, the ups and the downs, the best practice. And everything else you need to know to start, scale and systemise your very own HMO portfolio now.

[00:00:40] Today I'm joined by Dr. Michael Taylor, formally a GP. Michael is now full-time investing in HMOs, and I wanna find out exactly how he's done it. For anybody who wants to leave their professional career, maybe transition into the world of property, then today's episode is definitely one for you. Please sit back, relax, and enjoy today's episode of the HMO Podcast.

[00:01:04] Andy Graham: Hey guys, it's Andy here. We are gonna be getting back to the podcast in just a moment, but I wanted to very quickly tell you that we have got a huge sale on the HMO roadmap for a very short space of time, you can take advantage of a massive 20% discount off our premium package, and that gives you.

[00:01:19] Absolutely everything that we have got. And trust me, there is more than you could possibly imagine. We are by far the largest vault of training and education and content and resource for HMO investors anywhere in the world. And it's not just built by me, it's built by you guys, our community. It's unbiased, it's transparent, and it covers absolutely everything, and it is so incredibly rich in detail and value.

[00:01:42] Just head to thehmoroadmap.co.uk right now. Grab yourself a 20% discount. And start scaling your HMO property business today. Let's get back to the show.

[00:01:58] Andy Graham: Hi Michael. Thank you for joining me on the podcast today.

[00:02:01] Michael Taylor: Hi, Andy. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:02] Andy Graham: Real pleasure, Michael. Your story I think is quite a unique one. I've had the pleasure of interviewing. Lots of people from all sorts of backgrounds, do all sorts of things all over the country. And I think you might be the first doctor that we've had on the show.

[00:02:16] I might be wrong 'cause we are nearly 400 episodes into the show. But I think your story's quite unique and. In addition to that, you've been incredibly generous with your time. You've done an incredible case study for us already at the roadmap and an a wonderful masterclass. So I'm a big fan of your work and your teaching styles, and I've been really keen to get you on the show for a little while.

[00:02:35] Obviously, we're both very, very busy, but it's great to have you on. Michael for, our listeners. Can you tell us just a little bit about yourself, about your business, what you're doing and, and where you're doing it?

[00:02:45] Michael Taylor: Yeah. Thanks Andy. What a kind intro. Yep. So my name is Michael. We live in Hampshire. I'm married with three wonderfully terrible teenagers, one of whom is for sale.

[00:02:56] Michael Taylor: If anyone's interested, let me know. Uh, that might be a good investment or not. Or I could pay you, actually, maybe that might work. I dunno if that, but we're down in Hampshire, so I am facing, my story is I'm a, I'm a doctor. I've been, uh, a doctor for sort of 20 odd years. Been a GP for 15 of those years, and I guess sort of 2019, I was just thinking, right, is this.

[00:03:19] Michael Taylor: Staring at the same four walls thinking, is this it? Is this, I've got 25 years left until I can retire and is this what I want to be doing for the next 25 years? And I think the answer was a pretty resounding no. And so it was then a case of right, what do I need to do differently? Life is short. We only each get one of them.

[00:03:34] Michael Taylor: And I guess property then kind of came from that. It was looking at the option thinking like, what do I want to be doing? And the beauty of property, the capital growth that we get whilst having the monthly income, I think there's nothing really no investment vehicle that does that. And it for us, it was a bit of a no brainer.

[00:03:52] Michael Taylor: Off we went and changed our lives and here we are.

[00:03:54] Andy Graham: Okay. I mean, a couple of questions on that. I find this such a fascinating topic and I resonate really strongly with your story. I wasn't a doctor, but I was a physio. A lot of our listeners will know that. And I remember the moment that I sort of said to myself, look, I can't do this anymore.

[00:04:09] I honestly can't be in this room. And by the way, every GP has got that office that none of the GPs actually want to use. And everything gets chucked in there and it's not got any windows. And that was my office. I, I ran the, I ran the clinics for the local GPs and they're great team, great people to work with, but I was always in the worst room and my room didn't even have windows, so I was just staring at these four walls with that, that lighting they seem to only have in the NHS.

[00:04:34] And I was like, oh, I can't, I really don't think I can do this for the next 14 years. Yeah. So I totally get it, but I also remember how difficult that decision was for me, and I did that when I was, yeah. Relatively untethered. I didn't have any children. I had some mortgages by that point, but I was very transient.

[00:04:53] I could pretty much do anything at that point in my life. And you had already set up your life, you had a family and things like that. Yeah. Can you take us back to that time? What decisions did you have to weigh up as a doctor and as a family to take that? Because I know a lot of our members in the community feel the same.

[00:05:11] Not everybody, but I know a lot of people do wanna make a change, and I know how difficult that is. And I think listening to perhaps how you got there to that conclusion, maybe either inspire some people or just give them that kinda little sort of dose of reality that perhaps they're just looking for or need right now.

[00:05:27] Michael Taylor: Yeah. Yeah, so I think looking back, I've had a 20 year medical career and I have loved the vast majority of it. I absolutely loved med school. I absolutely loved my junior doctor days being part of that team, running around with a cape thinking and a stethoscope around our next thinking. We were kind of saving the world on the wards.

[00:05:46] Michael Taylor: You know, I absolutely. Loved it and I loved a lot of general practice and I think I, I'm quite achievement driven, so I'm always thinking, okay, what's next? Like I'd get a little bit sort of itchy feet if I sit around for too long. So I was a GP for like, say GP for 15 years, but I was partner for most, I was senior partner for eight years.

[00:06:04] Michael Taylor: I was a trainer for 10 years, so I helped train other doctors. I was the clinical director of a sort of wider bunch of something called primary care networks. So those folk in the NHS who might be listening will understand that they're kind of, lots of practice, all sort of come together to create a bigger, a bigger organisation that has a bit more spending power in economies of scale, et cetera.

[00:06:23] Michael Taylor: And I, I ran that for a while and I also have a role helping to, I'm an an appraiser for doctors and I have a role looking after the doctors who train other doctors. So I've done lots and lots of stuff in the NHS and I. I've loved, loved, loved the vast majority of it, but I think that. The weird thing about probably the, it's not unique to the NHS, but I think almost is even now, I can, if I go and do a morning clinic, the work is exactly the same as it was 15 years ago when I started.

[00:06:51] Michael Taylor: I have a room, I see patients, they come and see me bless their cotton little soles and you know, they come and see me with their problems and I try and whatever, and then off they go. And it's exactly the same now as it was 15 years ago. And it's, and there just isn't really that progression. I didn't really feel like I was.

[00:07:05] Michael Taylor: Growing and I think something I'll often say when people ask, like you just have in terms of that decision and that process. And I think for me, yes, it was a risk doing something different. Yes, it was a risk leaving the day job, the eat, work, sleep, repeat. It's the salary that drops every month, the comfort of the job, the colleagues, et cetera.

[00:07:26] Michael Taylor: It was a risk. Changing, but actually the bigger risk was staying put. So the, the bigger risk was staying in the job, staying within the same four walls, doing the same thing day after day after day. And the same eat work sleep repeat. And I just, without getting too dramatic, I was just sort of quietly dying inside.

[00:07:45] Michael Taylor: It was just, I was burning out. It was weary some, and the risk, actually, when I really think about it, the risk was staying. Not leaving, which made it an easier decision.

[00:07:55]Andy Graham: I think that's a really interesting way to reframe that looking and seeking that kind of next pursuit, that challenge in life. And again, I really resonate with that and seeing it actually is more of a risk to stay put and do nothing.

[00:08:09] And interestingly, I think when we look around. Now I think that I see more risk now than I ever did, and had I stayed in a role like the one I was in or, or maybe taken another sort of route in terms of professional career, actually,  I think. Recent events and perhaps changes on the horizon with ai, I think we actually can see how fragile so much more of life, certainly including employment and what we think is fixed employment is, and that didn't really feature into my decision at the time, but I think it would.

[00:08:42] Do now if I was still there. And I, like I said, completely resonate with the idea of trying to challenge myself. I felt similar in my professional career. I know a lot of people that I've spoken to transition from their professional careers into property. I mean, one thing for sure, right? Is that property's certainly not short of challenges and uh…

[00:09:05] Michael Taylor: A hundred percent yeah. No risks. Funny enough. No. Yeah, plenty of those as well.

[00:09:09] Andy Graham: And did you have to make a material change in your lifestyle for a period of time? I think that this is one of those things, you know, there are different ways to do it. Some people save and then make the jump.

[00:09:19] Some people cut the cord and just go for it. How did you guys adjust to that change or plan for that change?

[00:09:26] Michael Taylor: Yeah. Up until that point, I was doing 40 ish hours a week over four days. So I had a day a week when I wasn't in practice that I could put towards educating myself and heading down that property route, I suppose about three or four months in.

[00:09:42] Michael Taylor: So I ended up doing Simon Gucci's Property Mastermind as again, I was like, right, if I'm gonna do this, I need to know what I'm doing. I need to educate myself. And about fuel funds into that, I realized that I needed more time, so I then dropped a day down to three days. So I went down to three days a week.

[00:09:58] Michael Taylor: So I did 30 ish hours. 30, yeah, 30 ish hours over three days and created a little bit of financial pain, but we could still live off that. And, but I was all in, I was as in as I could go while still having a mortgage and blah, blah, blah, that I needed to manage. And my wife's Laura, she's a school teacher, and she's been doing three days a week since we had the kids.

[00:10:20] Michael Taylor: So between us, we both worked three days a week and then we had sort of a couple of days each to work it. So we were all in like, I mean, we're still working. Like I say, we were still working 30, 40 hours a week initially, but it was very much like, this is now gonna be our future. This is not something I'm gonna dabble with on the side and see if it works and if it doesn't, we were in, we remortgaged, so at least an equity.

[00:10:39] Andy Graham: Okay. Like we were, we were there. And when you made that decision that you were gonna make that big change. Did you have a short or medium term goal that you felt like you needed to hit to kind of almost get you back to an even keel from a lifestyle perspective? And if so, what sort of timeline did you give yourself for that?

[00:10:58] Michael Taylor: Yeah, to be honest, we are fortunate in the sense of I had a reasonably well paid job as a GP. The money that we sacrificed when we dropped today was a bit annoying, but certainly wasn't life changing, if that makes sense. So, but yeah, the first goal, of course, was to replace that day's income that I had dropped.

[00:11:18] Michael Taylor: Mm-hmm. And I did that classic thing of going, oh, well get that done in a year. And it took a bit longer. But that was the initial goal. It's like, right, small steps right now. Let's just, I'm gonna drop a day. We'll have, you know, maybe a year of a bit less income, but we could make that work perfectly fine.

[00:11:36] Michael Taylor: And then we'll replace that day. And then we'll just, we'll just go from there. And then there's this sort of, this balance where. Then thinking I will, I'll continue to reduce my NHS commitments as the property income kind of rises the other way, if that makes sense.

[00:11:47] Andy Graham: So it sounds like you took quite a logical approach to balancing the risk with maybe some sacrifices in your lifestyle and, and obviously you still do a little bit of professional work now, and I think that's also.

[00:12:02] Something I like to try and remind people that ask me this question themselves, look, the worst case, if it doesn't quite work or pan out or even pan out in the way that you want, or as quickly as you want, you can always go back to doing what you're doing or maybe a version of what you're doing or even something slightly different.

[00:12:16] I think that that safety net for most people in all honesty, is there, right? It kind of, I think it often seems a bit scarier than the reality actually is.

[00:12:26] Michael Taylor: Yeah, so funny enough, so I've just, just this morning I had my NHS, my sort of yearly NHS appraisal, and we were chatting through exactly that, and I think there is that real sense of I am so much happier right now than I was two or three years ago.

[00:12:40] Michael Taylor: I'm in such a better place. Do I have more money than I was when I was working four or five days a week as a GP? No, not really, to be honest. Like we're not there yet, but oh my gosh, like we have enough, we have. Time, which is of course the biggest thing that just money can't buy. And my own wellbeing and mental health and yeah, the time that we spend together, time, family time that, you know, we, we have August off every year and we, we go and travel for four to six weeks.

[00:13:07] Michael Taylor: Life is different and it is so much better. And again, it was, we didn't know it would go like this when I decided to. Quit. Essentially when I decided to reduce my hours and to end up leaving the partnership and the world, we didn't know that this was gonna look like we had an idea that we wanted it to look vaguely like this, but here we are and it's just, life just keeps coming and you, you make decisions and you absolutely.

[00:13:28] Michael Taylor: Yeah. I think for us as a family, I think, you know, we're pretty, we're pretty good at getting stuff done. We're pretty good at following through on things. We don't give up, like, you know, these things that, just, funny enough, you keep putting one foot and funny the other. You keep going in the right direction, you keep doing the right stuff, then the results have to come.

[00:13:43] Michael Taylor: That's just part of the equation really.

[00:13:44] Andy Graham: I was having a conversation with somebody this morning, good friend of mine. Really, really successful individual, possibly owns more property than anybody I know. In this conversation, he used the word persistence. And it's funny because I have just recorded a podcast on persistence.

[00:14:00] That podcast will have aired by the time, uh, this one with you does. Yeah. That kind of, I think you have perhaps just described an element of persistence yourself, just putting one step in front of the other. Yeah. Has the journey, like to get where we are now, was it. As straightforward as you expected. Was it as you anticipated or was it different?

[00:14:21] Was it more difficult and what have you had to persist through Michael, just to get where you are now?

[00:14:28] Michael Taylor: So certainly means slower than we were hoping. So everything just takes longer than we thought it would. Like Everything from buying a property to renovating it, to anything, it, whatever, like just everything seems to take longer than planned.

[00:14:43] Michael Taylor: I think it is harder than we were expecting as well. So I think nothing's easy in life. Let's just be clear on that. And I think there is no easy, quick way to make money. Everything is likely. So if it was easy and everyone would do it, et et cetera. So it has been a challenge and I think we've had some setbacks.

[00:15:00] Michael Taylor: On our journey. So our first ever deal tell you about this. So we were buying, our first ever deal was a block of flats. We were super, super excited about it. It spent seven months in conveyancing. We had architects drop some plans. We put planning in, we were adding bedrooms, we were renovating it. We. All of the numbers came back, purchase costs, the build, the GDV at the back end was higher, 200 grand, higher than we were expecting that.

[00:15:25] Michael Taylor: We were hoping that we'd, when we'd done our own times, we're like, this is amazing. This deal is incredible. And seven months in the vendor changed their mind and took it off the market. And we'd spent 15,000 pounds by this point on plans, planning, legals, et cetera, our first ever deal. And I, you know, I remember sitting on the kitchen floor with my wife.

[00:15:47] Michael Taylor: A tub of ice cream and I at a medium to large whiskey, just going like, what are we doing? Like, is this the right thing? Like I've reduced my. Time at the practice. I am not loving it mentally. I'm leaving that place. This was part of the master plan. This property, this block of action was part of the master plan to change our lives.

[00:16:05] Michael Taylor: And just like that, it's gone and we're back at square one. What are we doing? And I think it's in those moments when you've got a choice, isn't, it's in those moments when it's like, this is right, this is the thing. I said, are we gonna keep going? Are we gonna, maybe people here. People talk about trust, the process and all this kind of stuff and, and I guess when you're early on on the journey, actually you've not got all that experience.

[00:16:26] Michael Taylor: You've not got all that life property experience to know that these things happen. And we were just there going, has it, are we, is this it? Like, what is a disaster? It's 15 grand, blah, blah, blah. So I think that was a good moment for us in our journey. That was a good. Moment of right. A decision. It's the sliding doors moment.

[00:16:43] Michael Taylor: This is it. This is what we're gonna do. We are gonna pursue this. Yes, it's 15 grand. That's okay. We've got a bunch of other cash. We've got other people's cash. We know the system works. We know the numbers work. Let's go again, let's go again. Let's go again. Um, bit of courage, a bit of remembering why we're doing this.

[00:17:01] Michael Taylor: A bit of bigger picture. Am I gonna go back to working in NHS? Four days a week. No, that's not what I want at all. So you go again and you go again, and you get up and you go again.

[00:17:10] Andy Graham: And you were still on the mastermind that you joined at this point where you Michael? Yeah. Yeah. Was that an important part of, do you think, being able to continue and just finding almost support in the difficult times and the difficult decisions, because I remember.

[00:17:24] Many, many times, and I still have them now, where it does feel like an impossible challenge. Things come from the left field and they're very difficult to deal with, and that is the reality on so many different scales and levels. But sometimes just being able to turn around to someone who totally gets it and understands it, which for many of us, we were not able to get from our friends and family and colleagues.

[00:17:45] Was that an important part of that resilience and that ability for you to be able to just keep persisting. 

[00:17:53] Michael Taylor: A hundred percent. I think so. A hundred percent. And if you listen to this now and you're thinking, oh, you know, I'm gonna do it by myself, gonna listen to a few pods and, and get out there and do it, then on one hand, yep.

[00:18:02] Michael Taylor: Go for it. Good luck to you. On the other hand, like, oh my gosh, just the benefit that comes with getting, alongside having someone to get alongside you and to chat these things out. Someone with experience, someone that can allay those fears and calm you down sometimes and yeah, like you say, stuff, stuff goes wrong.

[00:18:18] Michael Taylor: Like it continues to, we've had planning refused and one of our projects recently, the bridge is running out. You're just like, ah. And you. But that, just having, like having someone that you can try this stuff through that. Whether it's a coach professionally to help you, whether it's just someone that within your network.

[00:18:32] Michael Taylor: But yeah, it's huge. And I think we have Tiger Woods. It was Tiger Woods had, I can't remember how many coaches, but it was 15 plus or something. And you know, the best golfer in the world and he's got 15 coaches around him to help him with every aspect of that. And I think, yeah, in life property, having someone alongside you is so, so, so important.

[00:18:51] Michael Taylor: And we've continued to do that. So even after the mastermind year, I've continued to have a coach around me. Funny enough, I've actually not got one right now, but I'm just in the process of setting one up again. 'cause I just, again, you know, about six months, I'm like, no, I need someone alongside me. So, yeah. Yeah, I totally agree with that.

[00:19:05] Andy Graham: Yeah. In a strange way. I love the fact that things do go wrong. That is, I find part of, and this sounds sadistic, is I find part of the fulfillment is being faced with those challenges and on a daily basis and on a weekly, on a monthly basis, figuring it out and just being able to sort of.

[00:19:24] Have a beer at the end of the week or whatever it might be and say, yeah, well well done mate. Yeah, that was a difficult one and you've done all right there and that. I do get a huge amount of satisfaction from being challenged in that sense as well. And I, going back to what you said earlier, I remember running my own clinics.

[00:19:40] Yeah. It would often feel the same. It would often feel like it wasn't challenging. And I really do like that variety, and I think what I've learned over the years. I'm sure you will continue to do as you gather more and more experience, but I have learned to deal with the challenges better as well. Not necessarily always better at finding the solution.

[00:20:04] Every challenge is a bit different, but just the way that I acknowledge it, the way that it sits with me, the fact that it doesn't necessarily keep me up at night whilst it probably should do in reality. Yeah, and I've learned that. There's so much more about this game that is learnable than I originally anticipated.

[00:20:21] So for anyone listening that is experiencing their own challenges, I think there is saving grace there because I promise whilst the challenges don't necessarily get easier to solve, I think they do get a little bit easier to kinda deal with on a personal and emotional level. So Michael, tell us where you are currently up to with the portfolio then.

[00:20:38] So. How long has it taken to kind of get where we are now and what does it currently look like?

[00:20:42] Michael Taylor: Yep. So we did our first deal, sort of November 22, and so we have six hmos now. So in Portsmouth we have 45 rooms, 46 rooms, mix of young professionals and supported living. And we've got, right now, I guess we've got.

[00:21:04] Michael Taylor: Some slightly different strands to what we're up to. 'cause we've got our own portfolio that's just sat there generating some income on the side. And then because we are finding deals, but we can't do them all, we then also portfolio build for others. So we have some clients that we are just supporting through their own HMO journey down on the south coast as well.

[00:21:22] Michael Taylor: And we've got a rent to rent as well. 'cause like you do, sometimes you start out, you just end up just kind of trying to do a bit of everything. Not quite sure what would necessarily stick, but yeah, it's a mix of our own stuff and then doing stuff for others as well.

[00:21:37] Andy Graham: Location wise, you mentioned Portsmouth. Yes. And a couple of different types of tenant demographic as well. So yes. I'm interested to understand how you landed on Portsmouth. What was the process there? I'm sure there was, yeah. You're a GP. You've gone through a very logical process and also, yeah, you've got.

Professionals and you've also got some social kinda housing in there as well, or a version of that. And I know that that's something that you are really interested and quite passionate and plan to do more of. So tell us a little bit more about, about those two elements and how that is starting to shape your business.

[00:22:09] Michael Taylor: Yeah, of course. So we live in Hampshire, so we live just on the edge of the South Downs, middle of nowhere, but sort of a quite distant, I guess, between Portsmouth, Southampton and Winchester. So when we started out, we knew that we wanted to invest locally. So I know not everybody does and that's like different decisions.

Michael Taylor: That's totally fine. Um, for us, we didn't want to be completely hands-on. And I'll maybe explain a bit more about that. In a minute, but we certainly, when we began, we definitely wanted to be local. We wanted to know that we could get to what we needed to get to our own properties sooner, more than later.

Michael Taylor: So we wanted to be more hands-on than perhaps investing up in the north, for example, which might take us hours to get to. So we were then looking at the areas around us. We knew we wanted a big city. We knew we wanted a population that we, we knew we wanted to do HMOs. We knew we needed a population that where HMOs were in demand.

Michael Taylor: And I think at the time we explored Portsmouth. Southampton, like I say, am Winster quite a lot. Winster is pretty pricey, and to be honest doesn't necessarily work quite as well there. Perhaps as other places, Southampton and Portsmouth were. Pretty similar. Portsmouth just so happened really to have, I think, fewer rooms and more people looking.

Michael Taylor: It is an island, so it is surrounded by sea on all three sides. There's not a really any space for growth within Portsmouth in terms of properties, accommodation. It's the most densely populated city outside of London. It's got hospitals, universities. The docks, the navy's there, lots of industry around.

Michael Taylor: We just thought, you know what? Actually we would be happy to invest in both, but also we wanted to really, really kind of try and do that sort of inch wide and a mile deep. We wanted to really get to know and become known in an area. We wanted to be the go-to people. If there were deals around, we wanted to really understand the market, and so for us at the time, still working three days, four days a week, et cetera, et cetera, we're just like, wait, Portsmouth seems like.

Michael Taylor: For us a better bet. And then we did a deal in Southampton that unfortunately fell over. But actually what we're finding is that two or three years in, actually, because we invest in Portsmouth, our network is there, people bring stuff to us. Our power team is all based there. It just, it's kind of organically ended up being the place where the next deal and the next door and the next door just ended up getting done.

[00:24:30] Andy Graham: I just wanna highlight that there, because I think this bit is so important. We touched on this before, we hit record today, didn't we? And we've all got our own objectives, haven't we as investors? Some of us, we are looking for security. Some of us are looking to recycle cash, and that's our priority. Some of us want that balance.

Some of us don't wanna be bothered by tenants at all, and some of us are happy. You know, it's for something in the middle of all of that. But one thing, and you just said there yourself, that I have really tried to make sure that. When people are trying to make this decision about location that they do really understand is how much value, compounded value there is in just remaining focused on one location.

You know the example you gave there was your power team's there. Yeah. You said to me, and I, I love this actually, and no one, I think other than I might believe you and you say this 'cause I do the same and I have done the same, but. You dated builders for a year. You dated contractors for a year. I won't ask for the details and the dates, but to find the right one and now that you've got a good build team behind you, that is obviously a critical part of your business, but so much time will have obviously been invested in that and it's very difficult.

If you want to then go and operate in a different location, you need to do that again and find a different relationship that then needs managing. Is it right to think, to say that that reinvestment in that location and those relationships and all of that experience and knowledge on that local level, has that been quite a critical part of the success that you've been able to kind of achieve?

[00:26:02] Michael Taylor: A hundred percent. Again, our success is because of the people around us, right? It's based on the guides around us. It's our power team that are who makes us. Look good and who's made us successful really in this so far? So yeah, a hundred percent dated builders for a year. So I'm the host of Southampton pin, so networking meeting, and someone came back to me the other day and they're like, I've just bought this property.

Michael Taylor: Can you recommend a builder? And, you know, I'm civil and smile and like, yeah, of course I can. But inside I'm, I'm like, how can you buy a property? And like, not yet have a builder in my view, like, how can you buy a property and not have a builder lined up? This is just like real basic stuff. And, and so for me it's like, right, the builders such, such a critical part of the team.

Michael Taylor: How much, obviously, how much is it gonna cost? How, when is it gonna get done? So again, on our HMO projects for every month that there is a delay. When you consider holding costs of the bridge and your bills, when you consider lost rent of over 6,000 pounds a month, then you're looking at a 10,000 pound a month loss.

Michael Taylor: Every month a project is delayed. And, and again, you know, someone the other day, um, chatted to them the other day and they were doing a project not far from us and they were six months. Behind schedule. And you know, the builder was cheaper, but, oh my gosh, like this is just, so there's these, I think we've gotta think outside the box a little bit.

Michael Taylor: We've just, we've gotta consider the cost, we've gotta consider the stress, et cetera. So for me, as a spending a year dating builders, I was like, right, I need a builder. So price, funny enough, price for me is not the main consideration. Yes, it's important, of course it is. But I want a project done on time and on budget, and I want.

Michael Taylor: A team I can trust and that's what I was looking for. And so, yeah, I took builders out for coffees, went out for lunch. I was, you know, your place or mine. I was like, can I come to one of your projects and you show me your buildsmanship, like what you've been doing? Workmanship. Like it was just like, you know, and some builders just never replied.

Michael Taylor: Some build you can imagine, right? You, we know what love builders, love my back power team, but you know, sometimes folk are just too busy. They've got other priorities and I totally get that. But after that year, we have a team around us. Now, we probably call each other, honestly, maybe three or four times a week about, not necessarily even about any of the projects that we're on.

Michael Taylor: Just like, oh, Michael, have you heard about this property that's just coming on, or, I've heard about that. Or they're giving us deals because we just go straight back to them with the build. It's that relationship. We can trust them. Honestly, they've never once been over budget. They've never once been late or delayed.

 Michael Taylor: And I know from my bridging late terms, I know from my finance, et cetera, that the work's gonna get done. Like I just got that confidence and I can just phone them up and I can give them the address and next project let's go, and off they go. It's amazing.

[00:28:43] Andy Graham: I think it's also really important for our listeners to understand that. You've gotta earn that as well. The truth is, if you are just getting started, you are at a disadvantage. 'cause people like you and I have already established some of these relationships and we have, uh, good operations and potentially able to move fast. It doesn't mean that there are no opportunities by any means whatsoever.

It just means that it's a little bit. More difficult then it just means that you might have to try harder and persist for longer. And I think that that's one of the things that people trying to get into the market, that barrier to entry is high. It's getting higher. Yeah. Because people like you and I and other investors understand just how valuable these things are and we wanna hold onto them.

And yeah, there is a, reducing the pool of opportunities has been squeezed with all the tax changes and things like that. But persistence is the key. And I think there's also just an element of. Just self-belief that I think if you're just getting started or you're at the beginning of that journey, you just have to have the faith that if you do exactly as you have outlined and described today, it will work.

It is just a matter of consistency and persistence and, and a bit of time and.

[00:29:52] Michael Taylor: Right, but these are like symbiotic relationships, aren't they? They're just like, I think that's the right word, but the building firm, I'm not going into a or meeting builders thinking, how much can I get them down? You know, can, how much can I drive them down?

Michael Taylor: No. And no, and no. That's not, I want a lower price. I need to be cheaper, cheaper, cheaper, but 'cause I'm gonna make more money. And it's like, well. Maybe, but then your builder's probably not gonna prioritise you and then when you've done the project, you're gonna go back with the next job and they'll be like, oh, actually I've got another one.

Michael Taylor: Thanks, dude, over here. You know? So it was coming at it from the win-win as a building firm. What are they looking for while they're looking for an investor that they can trust, someone that's gonna keep bringing them deal. Someone who's easy to work with, someone who doesn't change the plan halfway through.

Michael Taylor: Someone who. Has an interior designer and an architect that sets everything up from the very get go with spec, completely done from the beginning. So that, and then it just, you know, just then runs through and they get it done. And we're not trying to change things halfway through and causing carnage, and that's what they want and that works for us.

Michael Taylor: And we want builder so we can trust that we can just go back to the next job, et cetera. And so it is absolutely worth putting the time. And you're right, that in some ways the bar is higher, but. That's okay. It just means you need probably a longer runup. Maybe that's the, you know, you just need to meet these guys.

Michael Taylor: You need to get going. You need to, no point buying a property and then running around trying to find a builder. You know, all this stuff needs to be happening now. So relationships being built and so the team is there ready to go when you need them?

[00:31:16] Andy Graham: I think so. I agree. I think giving yourself a bigger runup.

I think also just having. Reasonable expectations of yourself and of other people. Yeah. It takes time to build trust. It takes time to build rapport. It takes time to construct really good deals and certain people, a good power team or a good mentor or teacher, of course, there are ways to try and accelerate things, and money does often help if it's used in the right way.

If you are prepared to pay a bit more, you might be able to get to the front of the queue or. Pick the good deal off the shelf. But yeah, just having realistic expectations. And I think in a world where we're so used to having everything on demand, property kind of is a bit of a slap in the face. 'cause it's like, whoa, hang on a minute.

There's a lot of things here that are gonna do the very best to kind of slow you down. And that's just the nature of this game. Yeah. The second part of the question was about. The social housing and that tenant. Yeah. Slightly alternative strategy. You did a really fantastic case study about good tenant management, but can you Tell us a little bit more about why you have started to diversify, Michael?

[00:32:19] Michael Taylor: Yes, of course. So. A hundred percent. It's perfectly possible, and it's perfectly possible of course, to have HMOs with good tenants that pay their rent on time and that look after your properties, et cetera, et cetera. They are absolutely out there.

Michael Taylor: Not all our tenants, of course, have ended up being like that, let's be honest. But most of our properties are rented out to young professionals and absolutely fine. We were doing great with it. We had one property that we bought in Portsmouth, which was basically, it was a little bit smaller, although still it's a little room, slightly smaller than perhaps what we'd like to go for, but still perfectly fine.

Michael Taylor: It was a really good price and we, so we just thought, right, slightly smaller rooms, slightly mean, slightly less rent, but no matter, let's crack on with it. It's a good deal. We can get all of our money out of that one, which was our first all money out deal. So let's do it again. You know what property's like and it's a bit of a, should we, shouldn't we?

Michael Taylor: And you just end up having a bit of courage and going, no, we'll make it work. Let's get it done. And as we were building it out, as part of our network was chatting to a friend Wilson Property and he said, well. I have a client who's looking for a provider who's looking for a seven beds, all en suite HMO.

Michael Taylor: How about an intro? And we'd thought about that kind of going down that route, but we didn't really know of anyone that did it. We didn't really know how to go about finding someone that did it, and so we'd kind of just defaulted professionals. Anyway, long story short, we agreed with the provider a five year lease.

Michael Taylor: On this HMO, we agree to price that on the face of it. And this is really important as well. I think. So on the face of it, the rent is less than what we'd be getting from professionals, but of course, by the time we've factored in all of our bills, by the time we've factored in maintenance, voids, et cetera, it is higher than what we would be getting if we were renting it to young professionals.

Michael Taylor: And obviously they manage the property, they pay all the bills. Um, we have zero, like literally zero to do with this property and it returns us over 2000 pounds per month. So it was a real eye opener for us in terms of not only is this great for us, because actually this is management free HMOs. Also with providing good quality housing for supported living tenants, which I think is still rare out there, if I'm honest.

Michael Taylor: You know? So we built out the property in the same way that we would've done had we rented it to young professionals. So again, that was a conscious decision. We're thinking, right, if this five-year lease actually doesn't end up coming off, we don't wanna be left with the property. That has been at spec lower for social housing, which is what some landlords will do.

Michael Taylor: We want a property that would work for young professionals. We needed to pivot that way. And also it drove the GDV at the backend. So that worked nicely for us. And everyone's, frankly, everyone's happy. So it's a model that we're, we're repeating. We've got another property that we're just handing over to Supportive Living.

Michael Taylor: Got another one actually that's just in the pipeline as well. If I'm honest, it's making us more money for less hassle and less work. But it's also like we're in that supportive living space. Like this is, I grew up in social housing first three years of my life, you know, it's pretty close to my heart, I think.

Michael Taylor: And the more we do this, the more we wanna be making a difference. We don't just wanna. Really honest. We don't just wanna make cash. You know? We don't just wanna make money. Actually. If we can make money whilst doing some good, whilst putting some love out there, whilst changing people's lives as best we can with their accommodation, then, then that's amazing.

Michael Taylor: And so we are just pushing more, more into that space.

[00:35:59] Andy Graham: Well, I think if you found a model that returns better, requires less resource and input and. It serves a greater sort of purpose, then that's the jackpot. And it's interesting, isn't it, because. Whilst it wasn't necessarily what you set out to do in the first instance, it was being in the market and that activity that has taken you there.

And I think sometimes it's, it's certainly worth remembering that the great thing about property is it really is an open door, and there are so many different things behind that door. You just never quite know one person, one relationship, one deal can completely change everything.

[00:36:38] Michael Taylor: Oh my gosh. It's so true. And I think we stepped into the property world from a place of I can't keep doing the NHS. I need to be doing something different. That is my priority. Just a change of income and a change of scene. And now that we're getting our feet under a bit more settled, we're now actually making. More kind of conscious decisions, right?

Michael Taylor: How can we grow this? How can we do this well, how can we do this properly? How can we make a difference? Et cetera, et cetera. And that is, like you say, it's so exciting, so, so, so many opportunities. It's amazing.

[00:37:07] Andy Graham: Well, it sounds like the future is very bright for you, you guys. Michael, look, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show today.

I could chat. About this stuff all, all day. And I love hearing these really genuine and honest and having these really authentic conversations with people like you. And I'm sure a lot of people who tuned in today to listen to this episode will feel inspired. I think there'll be many people who feel just reassured that it's okay, that maybe it's not going perfectly to plan.

And that's kind of the fun of this. Yeah, and I think you've shared some fantastic. Pieces of advice just around some of the methods to perhaps approach things like location and looking at your business and maybe strategising your exit from work. So thank you for joining me today, Michael. It really has been a lot of fun.

There's obviously stuff that you are doing now that other people can potentially get involved with, perhaps investors, perhaps people also that might be interested in a turnkey sort of service, which I think is what you're describing. Where would be the best place for anybody to come and find out a little bit more?

[00:38:09] Michael Taylor: Yes. Thanks Andy. So come and find me on the socials. So Michael Taylor on Facebook or Dr. Michael Taylor on Insta. We're also on LinkedIn. Yep. So we obviously we're building our own portfolio, but we are finding that there are more deals out there than we can do. So we use our own power team to help build out HMOS for others.

Michael Taylor: So we can do turnkey, but we also do what's called a project support package. And that's really where. Investor does the work, but we just get alongside and support and hold their hand and just make sure that the right things are getting done at the right time, et cetera. Again, using our power team, if it's down in the south, just to make sure that that sort of investment journey for people is as smooth as it can possibly be.

Michael Taylor: So guys, come and find me. Come and say hi. If you wanna come and have a chat, we can do that. I can come and see some of our projects. Really happy to show people around as well. Now that I've got more time, now that I'm no longer working with most NHS

Andy Graham: and there's the PIN network event that you run as well.

Michael Taylor: Yeah. Run the Southampton pin networking meeting. So that's the first Tuesday of every month. Yeah. Come and say hi there. Um, if you use the code dot Michael, if you've not been to one before Dr. Michael, then you can come for free on your first one. Again, would be great to see you there.

Andy Graham: There you go. You can go and sneak up on Michael and see whether he is legit. Michael, thank you again. It's been an absolute pleasure and I'm really, really, really looking forward to seeing where this all goes for you.

Michael Taylor: Oh, thanks Andy. Thanks so much for having me. I've loved it. Thank you. Thanks so much.

[00:39:38] Andy Graham: That is it. For today's episode, guys, thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with myself and Michael. I think for anybody looking to leave a professional job, maybe find a way outta the job and into the world of property, then today's episode really was a very down to earth, a very transparent and a very honest experience that Michael shared of exactly how to do it, and perhaps more importantly, what to expect.

That is it for today's episode. Guys, thank you so much for tuning in. Don't forget that if you do want to take things to the next level, if you want the AB and C's of HMOs, if you wanna find out how to scale up, if you want the tools, the resources and everything you could possibly need that could save you thousands of pounds and hours and hours, maybe even weeks of your time, then head straight to theHMOroadmap.co uk for a very short time only we've got a sale on.

But that is ending soon. So if you want to take advantage of everything we have got to offer. Then heading over to thHMOroadmap.co.uk right now. That's it guys. Thank you again for tuning in and don't forget that I'll be right back here in the very same place next week. So please join me then for another installment of the HMO Podcast.