Struggling to Grow Your Property Business? Here’s What Actually Works with Rebecca Alcock

Today, I’m joined once again by a familiar face on the podcast — Rebecca Alcock. You might remember Rebecca from our January episode. She’s a former mentee of mine who, alongside her husband Jolly, has gone on to achieve some incredible things in the HMO world.

This time, Rebecca’s back with some very exciting news to share. I won’t spoil the surprise just yet, but I was keen to dig into exactly how she’s built such success, the challenges she’s overcome, and the strategies that have worked for her.

Whether you’re just starting your HMO journey or looking to scale but finding it tough, there’s a lot to take away from Rebecca’s story, methods, and approach. 

Here’s what we cover:

• 05:43 - Long-Term Vision and Diversification
• 08:52 - Managing Challenges and Chaos
• 11:48 - Transitioning from Corporate to Property
• 14:56 - Overcoming Time Constraints and Prioritising Goals
• 20:36 - The Role of Accountability and Mentorship
• 23:30 - Navigating Information Overload

If you want to join Rebecca’s 1-2-1 mentoring program, you can enquire here.

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If you want to join my 1-2-1 mentoring program, you can enquire here. 

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Transcript

Andy Graham (00:02.67)

Hey, I'm Andy and you're listening to the HMO Podcast. Over 10 years ago, I set myself the challenge of building my own property portfolio. And what began as a short-term investment plan soon became a long-term commitment to change the way young people live together. I've now built several successful businesses. I've raised millions of pounds of investment and I've managed thousands of tenants. Join me and some very special guests to discover the tips, tricks and hacks, the ups and the downs, the best practice and everything else you need to know to start, scale and systemise your very own HMO portfolio now.

Andy Graham (00:40.686)

Today I'm joined by a familiar face on the podcast, Rebecca Alcock. Now, Rebecca joined us back in the show in January. And you might remember that Rebecca's previous mentee of mine and with her husband, Jolly, has achieved some truly incredible things. Today I wanted to get Rebecca back on the show. We've got some very exciting news to share. I don't want to give too much away just yet, but I really wanted to grill Rebecca on how she has been able to make it so successful and what challenges she had to overcome. I think there's so much to learn from Rebecca's story, from Rebecca's methods, from her approach. And today we are going to discuss some of that. If you're just building your HMO business now, just getting started, perhaps scaling it up, but finding it difficult, then today's episode is definitely one you want to stick around for. Please sit back, relax and enjoy today's episode of the HMO podcast.

Andy Graham (01:30.03)

Hey guys, it's Andy here. We're going to be getting back to the podcast in just a moment, but before we do, I want to tell you very quickly about the HMO roadmap. Now, if you're serious about replacing your income, or perhaps you've already got a HMO portfolio that you want to scale up, then the HMO roadmap really is your one-stop shop. Inside the roadmap, you'll find a full 60 lesson course delivered by me, teaching you how to find more deals, how to fund more deals and raise private finance, how to refurbish great properties, how to fill them with great tenants that stay for longer, and how to manage your properties and tenants for the future. 

We've also got guest workshops added every single month. We've got new videos added every single week about all sorts of topics. We've got downloadable resources, cheat sheets, and swipe files to help you. We've got case studies from guests and community members who are doing incredible projects that you can learn from. And we've also built an application just for you, that allows you to appraise and evaluate your deals, stack them side by side and track the key metrics that are most important to you. To find out more, head to theHMOroadmap.co.uk now and come and join our incredible community of HMO property investors.

Andy Graham (02:40.398)

Hi Rebecca, It's great to have you back on the podcast.

Rebecca: Thanks, yeah, it's good to be here.

Andy Graham: So you joined us back in January and obviously you and I know each other very well. You worked together, you were one of my mentees for quite some time and you built a really fantastic business with your husband Jol in Sheffield. What I've always found really fascinating about what you achieved is the challenges and the chaos that surrounded that, which actually we all have to deal with, but you handled so well. 

It was almost like you were an expert at just dealing with all of that stuff. And it was really clear to me when we were working together, that you were going to be incredibly successful with your business and portfolio. And a big part of that was how you managed everything else. So I'd love to talk a little bit more about that today and find out how you managed to make it work. The sort of business that you built through all of that noise and those challenges. And for our listeners, just a bit of a head-up, we've got Rebecca and I have got some really exciting news to share towards the end of today's episode. I won't give too much away just yet, but hang on till the end of today's episode. But Rebecca, perhaps for anyone who, yeah, January's a little while ago now, maybe for anyone who missed that episode. Can you bring us right up to speed? Tell us where your business is currently at. What do you currently do? What does the portfolio currently look like?

Rebecca Alcock (03:55.534)

Okay, so we invest in Sheffield and we have got a portfolio of just boring buy-to-lets. We've also got predominantly student portfolio in terms of our HMOs. We've got one professional HMO kind of thrown in there. And then alongside that, we've really been focusing on the HMOs the last few years. We've got a couple of HMOs that are currently refurb at the moment, but very much trying to go back to the buy-to-lets a little bit more after not really buying a buy-to-let at all in last few years, but trying to do it in volume. 

So looking at buying portfolios and yeah, just as a way of diversifying that we love HMOs, but we don't want all of our portfolio to be HMOs. So yeah, going back to buying buy-to-lets, but as I say in volumes, so three whole blocks of flats that we can then divide. And also going back to one of the first things that we started out doing, which was flips. So we've got quite a big pipeline of flips this year as well.

Andy Graham: So a really nice mixed portfolio. think you used the word diverse portfolio. And the HMOs, Rebecca, when we working together, they were a really important part of accelerating that cash flow, weren't they? Obviously HMOs are fantastic for that. In fact, I think it's fair to say that pretty much everything that you bought in the HMO space is very, very prime. You are very centrally located. It's pretty much all within the article four direction. And the flats and the multi-unit freehold blocks and the flips. Tell us about how they feature here. What's the objective? What's the purpose there? What did they kind of do in terms of your bigger mission and the objective that you guys are trying to achieve now?

Rebecca Alcock (05:37.816)

Yeah, so our ultimate goal is we will be in Sheffield forever. We want to travel a lot, but our base will always be in Sheffield. So for us, it's about buying assets that are still generating income for us in 30 years time. The HMOs are fantastic for the cashflow element, but actually having just boring buy-to-let that are relatively easy to dispose of if you need to because, you know, they can go into the back of the first time buyer market and all those kinds of things. That is for us where that kind of buy to let strategy is coming from. The reason that we're going for multi, you know, freehold blocks and things like that is because actually buying one buy to let feels boring and it also feels very slow. So actually it's a way of just buying in bulk. 

So we are only really looking at either multi-unit freehold blocks, which is obviously, you know three, four, five buy-to-lets at once, or then buying portfolios. We're then looking at the flips just because it's a good way to generate that capital so that we're not always having to think about pulling the majority of our money out every time we do a deal. We can just pick deals that we think are great and we can look a bit more long-term because we've got that capital coming in to sort of replenish the pot for deposits.

Andy Graham: I want to pick out a couple of things there, because I think there's some really, really important stuff for our listeners. The first thing that you said was that this was sort of a long-term plan. You want to travel in the future. But I think what's really interesting here is that you think very long-term and I think that that is so important. You and I are very similar in that sense. And when you think long-term, you do make different decisions as opposed to just thinking very short-term. Of course, there are short-term objectives that we all need to achieve as well.

But sometimes they are at conflict. So it's really interesting to you talk about that long-term view that you've got on things. I think the second really key thing there that I heard was that you're utilizing different methods to achieve this objective. It's really easy to sort of get pigeonholed to overly focus on one method and think that that is the solution to do the next one, the next one, and the next one. The reality is, and I've said this for a long time on the podcast, it's actually very difficult, especially if you're buying prime HMOs and you'll know this.

Andy Graham (07:58.094)

But it's very difficult, isn’t it, to do the next project and the next project and the next project just through HMOs. When you're buying Prime, it's really, really difficult to add enough capital value to then recycle it all out and just go and do the same again. So you have to really be able to focus on and have a strategy in place to replenish your capital, which is exactly what you're talking about here, isn't it?

Rebecca: Yeah, absolutely. And one of my key criteria is that I buy nice parts of Sheffield and nice parts of Sheffield comes with a price tag. And it also comes with landlords that don't need to sell because, you know, they've got plenty of property that is worth a lot of money. So you do have to then adjust. Like our strategy cannot be based on getting all of our money out for every deal because if we were waiting for those deals, we would never have done a deal. If you can leave a small amount of money in a HMO in an Article 4 area in Sheffield, you've done exceptionally well. So if that's all you're relying on, the pace is just not going to be fast enough for how quickly I want to move for us to get to our goals. So it's imperative that we've then got that strategy at the side, which is in effect funding that.

Andy Graham: Yeah. You've just got to be more creative and it's really refreshing to hear somebody like yourself say this. The other thing that I pulled out from what you said was that your strategy is very consolidated. It's all in Sheffield and actually you're buying multi-unit free whole blocks as well. Very similar to myself. I've got a lot of blocks. Having a lot of your sort of concentration in one location and certainly even in one building it makes everything so much easier, doesn't it? From a managerial perspective, from a relationship building perspective, from understanding your values, from having the same contracts, it's just literally everything is easier if you do it in one place, isn't it?

Rebecca Alcock (09:45.582)

Yeah, absolutely. And we decided very early on that I have got no interest in investing all over the country. About 90% of our portfolio is in one postcode, which that's part of our strategy is to expect. I know that we, if we want to buy in volume, we are going to need to buy in more than one postcode. However, I would happily buy in that postcode.

Like if someone said to me, you can buy good deals in that postcode and that's all you're going to buy, then I would because it's a great postcode and it has everything that I look for in an investment area, but that isn't possible. But certainly having things concentrated in an area means everything is accessible. It means that we can manage in-house, which obviously saves cost and also means that we're really in control of quality. It has a lot of benefits which I think for us, outweighs potentially finding some cheaper deals with better yields that are two and a half hours away.

Andy Graham: Yes. And I think that that's one of the big mistakes that a lot of people make. They start to chase the yield around the country, looking for that good deal, looking for those numbers on the page and compromising on the logistics, the location, the time it might take to travel, the practical challenges of having to deal with things at a distance, which isn't for everybody. And it's certainly not for me. And again, without that long time horizon, without looking at your business with that in mind, it's very difficult to make decisions on that basis, which I think is why so many people do end up stretching themselves very thin very early on. 

Rebecca, remind us, how long has it taken you to get where you are? And you know, you really started to ramp things up when you started to push on the HMOs, didn't you? But how long has this all taken you?

Rebecca Alcock (11:37.496)

So I think we're quite typical of sort of the curve of growth that can happen when you're investing in property. So I bought my first buy to let in 2014. I inherited some money and that was essentially my pension and that was all it was ever meant to be. I had it on a repayment mortgage so it wasn't generating anything really. So that was the starting point.

In 2018, we started doing flips and Jolly, my husband left work. So at that point we became a bit more serious. But again, that was very much just, we replace this income by doing flips? And that was all we wanted to do. It was three and a half years ago, we sat down and said, right, we want to turn this into a bit more of a plan. And that's when we joined you under the HMO roadmap and mentoring.

So it's from there really, but I also remember sitting three and a half years ago and saying, I don't want to leave work. I'm happy in my corporate role. I just want this to be sort of additional funds and so that we've got the choice to do things, et cetera. It's now, it's a year next week since I left work. And then in July, I agreed to buy, we agreed to 12 purchases, which is more than what we'd bought in 2024 in total. 

So, we are on this real upward trajectory, which I think is quite common when you really set your mind to it. Like it really does just snowball once you get things in place. So yeah, I mean, the last three years we've made massive progress, but then if I look at the last month, even the progress in the last month, probably trumps kind of the progress in the last three years.

Andy Graham: Well, it's great to see, but no surprise whatsoever to me because of how focused you guys were. And I think what's really important to this story as well, Rebecca, is a bit of context that I don't think you've quite done yourself justice to yet. Tell us a little bit about your role and what you were actually doing before you went full time into property, because it was pretty full of a lot of responsibility and a very, very, very big decision to leave a career like that to do what you're now doing.

Rebecca Alcock (13:49.486)

Yeah, so my background, I was a charter accountant, charter tax advisor. So I was a corporate tax advisor for a number of years. And then after we had our third daughter, when I went back to work, I didn't go back into practice. I went to work for a FTSE 100 listed house builder in Sheffield to set up their internal tax team. So my remit was every single tax that a very large company pays.

I was the liaison, so I was in charge of any tax filings, anything, all advisory with the help of external advisors, but also responsible for setting up all the controls in the business for educating the whole business about what needed to be doing in terms of tax. So yeah, it was a great job and it was a job that like was made for me really because I'd not really realized when I was in practice just how not suited it was to me. I like to be talking to people.

I don't just like to be sitting writing reports and advice. I want to be talking to people, helping people, which my role was a hundred percent, but yeah, it was very full on. I went working four days because we still had our youngest daughter was only one when I went back to work. So I worked four days and sort of quite quickly realized that it was more than four days a week, that job. So went into, did, it was five days a week and more, but condensed into four.

So ended up doing four long days. So there was a lot going on. And as I say, I always loved it and I had things that I wanted to achieve, but it gradually became more more apparent that I was then holding back our business because as much as it's a team effort between me and Jolly, anything growth related, pushing the business forward, that's me. It's quite hard to do that sort of evenings and weekends when you've got children as well. 

So yeah, about 18 months ago, there was a real realization that I was the reason that we weren't growing more. And given that it's me that's always the one striving for growth, it just felt right that we were in a position because of the HMOs where I could leave work. It's obviously still a leap and however much income you've replaced, you're still at that point earning two lots of income. So at whatever point you leave work, that income does disappear, it doesn't matter what you've built up. So it still feels scary.

Rebecca Alcock (16:10.904)

But yeah, now I can't believe I didn't do it sooner, to be honest, which I think everybody says.

Andy Graham: I think everybody does say that, but you kind of skipped over the bit about having three young kids as well, Rebecca. We talked about this previously on your episode. Gemma and I, we've got one, we've got Isla now who's six months. And so I'm learning very quickly that time is this sort of thing that is just nowhere near in the same abundance that it used to be. Having three kids and at the ages that you have with a job like that, that is pretty monumental. 

And I think that that for me, this is what really stands out to me because on paper, Rebecca, there are so many reasons why you shouldn't have done this and we should have really struggled to be able to do it. Yet you're one of the most successful examples that I think I've seen and all the people that I've worked with, which is remarkable. But clearly that hasn't happened by accident. And that is what I think is so, so interesting about your story. And I think there's so much to learn and take from it. 

But that is a really high pressure role, huge amount, a huge time commitment, obviously a massive financial sacrifice to leave that to then take on this risk of building your own thing, juggling all of that with kids. I mean, I'm sure at this point, anybody listening would have to agree that that is pretty remarkable. And what I would love to do today is to maybe get into the weeds of some of the things that I think limit a lot of people that so many people find difficult to overcome.

Let's call them excuses for lack of a better word. And I'd love to get your take on it and understand exactly how you dealt with that on quite a granular level to sort of overcome it and get where you are. So I suppose there's a few things that really stand out to me from my work with a lot of people over the years, you know, running the community, the real challenges, the obstacles that people face. One of the big ones, and one of the excuses I hear a lot is I just don't have enough time. It's a real time pressure thing and

Andy Graham (18:05.762)

We are all so busy, aren't we? There's absolutely no doubt about that whatsoever. But I think that some people are able to manage that and those challenges better than others. How did you manage this? Just purely from a time perspective, how did you manage this, Rebecca?

Rebecca: Okay, so I am a really big believer in you can make time for whatever you want to make time for. Now, clearly there are constraints in that, but the reality is deciding what is important and then prioritizing that, you'll actually be really surprised what you get done. So as an example, myself and Jolly are really big on health and exercise and I've learned a lot from Jolly about this.

I don't think that Jolly has missed going to the gym. I think he's been to the gym or gone for a run at least four times a week, probably for the last 10 years as a minimum. Like there is no excuse. There is no reason why you would be too busy. And I think it's about how important things are. And it's okay to say I am not spending my lunch hour ringing estate agents because I would rather have some downtime. Like that's okay, but that is a choice. And it's all a choice and it's all about how we use that time. Now I know that I am programmed. My default is to want to be busy, but I enjoy that. So I understand that that puts me at a slight advantage because I don't particularly like doing work. I don't particularly need to wind down from doing work.

But this has never been about me just working like we spend a lot of time doing things that we like, but it's about just prioritizing. And that makes it sound really simple and maybe a bit offensive to people that are saying that they don't have time. But I think actually, if you think, well, how much time am I spending watching TV? How much time am I spending scrolling on my phone? If you actually sit down and prioritize, everybody has got some time that they could use in a way that they want.

Rebecca Alcock (20:19.582)

I chose to use it working and building this, but not at the detriment of, you know, looking after myself. So like in the last year, both of us have run a marathon. Now I can safely say I did not have time to train for a marathon when I was still at work, when I was growing the business and we got the kids. Like not being at work definitely freed up that time, but I'd run plenty of half marathons that it's for me, it really is. And I'm interested to kind of hear what you think, Andy. I think it is just about priority.

Andy Graham: Yeah, honestly, sitting here listening to you say all that, I think that was a little mini masterclass, Rebecca. My mentor, JP, told me many years ago, because I was one of those people, I was too busy. Why haven't you done this? I've been too busy. Why haven't you done that? I've been too busy. And he told me, no uncertain terms, look, there's no such thing as being busy.

It's just a choice. What you mean is that I have chosen to do something else with my time. That's fine. If you want to do that, that's your decision. That's fine. But let's be honest, it boils down to a choice. And I learned some very important lessons very early on in my business career. And you will know from working with me that I am quite black and white now as well as a mentor. I'm quite black and white. And that is the sort of advice I will give anybody that I work with. 

Look, it's not about being too busy. It just boils down to hard choices. Sometimes you've got to make a sacrifice. Something's got to go. What's it going to be? Is it the business? Is it this aspiration? Is it this dream? Or is it time on the PlayStation? Or is it that two week holiday that you take every quarter? Really difficult decisions, but a lot of compromise, a lot of sacrifice, a lot of short-term pain, I think sometimes is what it needs for a bit of long-term gain. But I would challenge anyone listening right now to go in their phone.

Andy Graham (22:12.734)

look at their screen usage over the last week and honestly sit there and say they don't have time. It is an absolute sort of drain for so many people and we just don't realize. But I completely agree with everything that you see Rebecca and like you and like Jol, I have my own non-go schools, training, exercise. I have probably exactly the same as Jol, not trained any less than four times a week since I can remember since I was 15, 16. It's that important to me. It's just about the most important thing. And I think a huge part of this is it just boils down to discipline. You've just got to be really disciplined with your time, haven't you?

Rebecca: You do. And I think as well, is about, so like with the whole exercise point, there will be times when I am feeling very busy and I choose to prioritize working because I know that getting that thing done will make me feel better compared to getting in my third or fourth gym session of the week.

That self-awareness, I know that. I know that there is a basic level of movement that is required just for general health. But in a week, I may be that I've been very busy and I've chosen to prioritize work. That's okay for me. Jolly is an example. Like he knows he has to prioritize the exercise because if he doesn't prioritize that, then he'll get even less work done. So it's about knowing yourself. Like there isn't a right or wrong, it's about knowing what you need to make sure that you are kind of functioning optimally and what needs to give at that point.

Andy Graham (23:48.502)

Yep. And I think it's fair to say that if you haven't done this before, if what you're familiar with is a job where you turn up, you do a certain amount of set hours, you come home, you have a routine, there is a learning curve to this as well. And I think that we all find that and some people struggle a bit more than others to find that. But ultimately, I think you've perfectly described how to ultimately find that balance and do all in the right way. 

The next one, Rebecca, that I've seen a lot of people find resistance from, really struggle to overcome is this fear of getting it wrong. I think there's a real sort of genuine anxiety about trying this and making a mess of it and perhaps embarrassing oneself in front of friends and family members, just getting it wrong and making mistakes that could set them further back. How did you feel about this? How did you overcome these sorts of internal limiting beliefs and objections?

So I think it's clearly how I've been raised, the school that I went to, and I honestly don't care what anyone else thinks, especially clearly my family, but in terms of work as well, it's about me. So it's about me making sure that I have done my best. So clearly doing something you don't want to fail because failure doesn't feel fantastic.

But I think actually, if you've got to deal with the fact that you're worrying about failing yourself, that's one thing. Worrying about how it seems to anybody else, well, that's the whole other thing that you just don't need to be thinking about. And I think people also, you kind of overestimate how much other people care about whether you succeed or fail. That works both ways. There are very few people that care whether you succeed or whether you fail.

That's a bit of a sobering thought to think that not that many people care whether you succeed, but then also it's quite sort of, I don't know, I feel like it's sort of a bit liberating to think, actually they also don't care if I fail. They probably won't even notice. So I think that's a really big thing. I would always recommend to everybody that if you are starting something off in property, the same as you're starting anything new, you've got your job as the back.

Rebecca Alcock (26:02.478)

up, like keep that back up. I would never suggest to anybody, oh right, well you want to start in property, okay, hand you notice in, go full time tomorrow. Like you've got no experience. You know, that is the safety net. And actually I think it's really worth thinking about what's the worst case scenario. And if the worst case scenario is that you then just have to carry on doing your job for the next 30 years, it's not actually that bad because it's what you're doing now. I think really putting stuff into context is really key.

And also remembering that you aren't that important to the majority of people. So it's just about you and having you tried your best and being okay with failure yourself, because even if you don't fail in the grand scheme of things, there will be failures along the way and that's a given. But just being able to deal with that yourself and without worrying about other people, I think is really important.

Andy Graham: I think that's really sound advice. Often the fear of unknown is what's the really scary thing when we're just getting started, when we don't have that experience, when we don't have people around us that can lead and guide and share the difficulties and the challenges. That can be exceptionally difficult, but I think there is comfort in knowing that everybody really goes through that and it's those brave enough to ultimately take that step forward, put something at risk.

Yes, mitigate that risk as much as possible. I'm sure we'll talk about some of the ways to do that today, but finding solutions to do it as safely as possible. But knowing that, like you said, that the worst case is that you could probably just continue your job or if it goes wrong, once you've left your job, just go back to your job and your career. It's really not that bad. And sometimes, like you said, that is quite a sobering and liberating process to go through because actually it just helps compartmentalize things and it just removes, I think, a whole lot of the overwhelm. But ultimately.

And I think that this is one of the things that I have seen with the people that I've worked with that have been the most successful, yourself included. There is a point at which you just have to be prepared to take that leap of faith to back yourself and have enough faith and confidence that you'll probably get it right. And if you get it wrong, it probably won't be that bad. And I think if we could all just look at stuff in that way, anyone listening today who wants to give this a go has been sitting on the sidelines for ages. Honestly.

Andy Graham (28:18.102)

It doesn't really get any easier than that. There is always that point where you've got to make that difficult decision, but with the right things around you, this isn't rocket science. And I think that there's a lot of people doing this that are far less equipped and for so many reasons should have made far more mistakes. What about the people that try to do everything alone, Rebecca? That's one of the, I suppose, groups of people that I see really struggle. They try and take on so much and do everything and chase so many different things that they never really make any material progress. I don't think that this was you and Jol whatsoever. You guys were so focused, but , is this something that you've seen? Is it something that you've found in any way challenging yourselves at time? There's lots of things that you could have done with your time and your money. What do you think about this one?

Rebecca: So I think there are a few things here. So I think it's really important to understand what kind of person you are. And when you're employed, it doesn't really matter that much in terms of how you work because you don't really have as much autonomy and you're on a path that you just kind of have to navigate. When you're doing something for yourself, I think you really do have to understand how you work. 

So I'm very driven and I don't necessarily need accountability from other people because I'm quite good at holding myself accountable. But not everybody is like that. And I think that's okay. So I think if you firstly acknowledge like, what is it that I need that I can't get from myself? So for me, I like to understand things. So that's why we started working with you when we started looking at HMOs, because actually I didn't understand the HMOs. 

So, I'm not going to start buying HMOs when I don't understand them. And for me, the best way of learning is by working it out myself and then having somebody that is there for me to ask questions, to point me in directions that I didn't know existed. So I think that's something that's really important, working out. Like how are you going to get the knowledge that you need? Like some people work really well in a classroom setting.

Rebecca Alcock (30:31.928)

and like actually taking in technical information. I can pick all that stuff up really fast. So actually for me, the big missing piece then is actually just having that kind of somebody to consult, which I think people miss because they sort of think, right, well, I can get everything I need from Google. I can ask ChatGPT. I'm trying to save money. I'm just going to do that. I'm just going to go for it. And I think when you do that.

First of all, you don't have a plan. I'm really big on plans, but a lot of people aren't, and I think a lot of people need somebody to sit down with them and say, what is actually the plan? They also need reminding what the plan is, because it's so easy. You start saying, right, I'm looking for a HMO. You start talking to some sources. Next minute, they've sent you a rent to SA deal that looks fantastic. I think it's really easy when you're on your own to feel like, brilliant!

Rent to essay, right? Yeah, we're doing rent to essay now. Whereas who's actually going to say to you, wait, that's not the plan. And you don't have that autonomy. When you're in a corporate role, you've got a job description. And if you start going off from your job description, you've got your manager saying, wait a minute, like what are you doing? So I think when you sort of let loose on your own, it's really easy to just be like, oh, right, we're doing this, we're doing this. 

So having that plan as a starter, but then somebody reminding you, I think is where a lot of people go wrong because they are just sort of let loose. Like they're free. They've not got a boss anymore. It's the only time they'd have to report to somebody and they just sort of go wild.

Andy Graham: More great advice, Rebecca. I think a good way, one way I like to look at building a business is that you are the conductor of this orchestra and that orchestra, all the people around you that you need to synchronize and help make this incredible masterpiece. And you're probably not going to start by creating one of the most incredible pieces in the world. It will take a little bit of time as you hone those skills and practice and actually realize that maybe the violinist probably isn't the person that should be in the orchestra and you need to swap them out for somebody else.

Andy Graham (32:39.394)

But understanding that that is your role. Your role is not to play every single instrument and be an expert and really good at every single instrument. Just understanding that from the outset, I think is a really good way to approach business, especially in property because there are so many physical moving parts. There are so many things that need attention, some different variables. And you're absolutely right. Having somebody there to guide you on this practice of becoming a better conductor, making sure that you are focusing your attention and your time and you're analyzing the decisions in the right way.

There are lots of ways to make money in property. Rent to SA is one of them. Investing in HMOs is another of them. Developing the large commercial project, that is another one. But trying to do it all at once, it often doesn't work. And especially when you have the inexperience, but it's that inexperience that isn't often able to tell you that I should probably just pick one of these for a period of time.

Focus, get pretty good at it and then fold something else into it. And obviously you started with Buy to Lets in 2000 and did you say 2014 Rebecca? I mean, what a great example. You know, it would be really easy to have seen Rebecca's been on the podcast a couple of times recently. She's probably done all of this in the last sort of few years. Well, the reality is it's taken you a lot longer to get where you are now and that's perfectly fine. You described that curve of growth, but it's okay to focus on something, get good at it, move on to the next thing, but trying to do everything all at once. That is definitely, you know, one way to kind of get things wrong in my opinion, taking this one a little bit further, there is also the challenge and I'm seeing this more than ever. And I think it's as YouTube has become a more popular resource for learning information overload. There is so much free information out there and I'll include our podcast as one of those resources.

Did you at any point struggle with this? Did you find it difficult to decipher or determine where you should be focusing your attention or to pull enough value from all of the free resources to put something together that was valuable enough to help you actually execute on something? I mean, I see people struggling with this and getting so distracted because there are so many different ideas and different methods being banded around. What do you think about this?

Rebecca Alcock (34:58.37)

Yeah. So I think this is a really difficult one. And I think what kind of compounds it as well is that it's not a huge problem when it's free. Because when it's free, actually, if you get nothing from it, then you've not particularly lost anything. I mean, the property industry and my property Instagram, every other advert is kind of something that I can pay to let you know, a master class in this, a resource in this that starts off free, but then isn't.

And I think actually, I think the reality is that I would say that all the free resources are a great starter, but actually there's a reason that they're all free and none of them are there to be able to equip you with everything that you need to be able to go that they are all a funnel of some respect, which is how that's set up and that's fine. But I think it can be dangerous to know that, to think that you've watched some YouTube channels. So you now know exactly what to do when you are buying your first HMO. 

And I think then, but also not realizing, so I could very easily have watched a YouTube channel on buying HMOs and I could have then decided that I was going to buy one in Sheffield because that's where some students were. But if that YouTuber wasn't talking about an Article 4 area or they weren't talking about a HMO that was six bedrooms, so needed a license. There could have been huge chunks that I didn't know, but I didn't know that I didn't know them because they just weren't included. So I think it's sometimes actually even more dangerous because you can feel like you know. Well, yeah, I've been watching this guy and he's been talking about HMOs and I know all about HMOs, but you might just know everything you need to know about four bed HMOs in a non-article four area.

And then suddenly you bought a building that you thought you could turn into a HMO, but actually, so I think it can be dangerous. It also doesn't help like sticking to the plan because you see different people's strategy. It's good to soak in that information, but I think just acknowledging that people are different to you and you need to make sure that the information that you've got is specific to your situation.

Andy Graham (37:18.614)

Yeah. I mean, if I could build on that, I think that that last bit that you just said there is so critical because we've all got our own objectives and aspirations and things that we want to achieve. And we've all got our own different opinions and experiences. Having done that, the way that I have always tried to work with people is to really understand them, where they're currently at, what they want to achieve and utilize my experience and contacts and network resource and knowledge to help them apply it to their very specific situation. And I think that that's the bit that's really difficult to get when you're just pulling on lots of different resources from lots of different places. Individually, they all might be fantastic pieces of advice, but actually collectively and looking at it in the context of your personal circumstances, it can be really, really difficult. 

And I think for so many people, this is why it becomes overwhelming to actually decipher, should I do what this guy says or should I do what this lady says or should I do it in this different way altogether? And that ends up so often leading to people just going round and round in circles, which is really frustrating, really quite demoralizing. We've already established that time is one of the things that very few of us have in abundance these days. When you're spending lots of time going round in circles, it's really, really disappointing. And I think sadly, it's one of the reasons why a lot of people actually never really get started and never really get beyond a certain point. 

I think structured advice, tailored advice, bespoke advice, and utilizing free resources to plug into your situation, your circumstances, is absolutely what you need to do. I mean, Rebecca, there's so much more that we could talk about here, but I think that this is all really incredible advice. Imean, I'm just considering how much, we've been here 40 minutes and there's so much more that we could talk about, but I think what's really clear, and I'm sure all of our listeners sitting here can see just how knowledgeable and skilled you are in this, Rebecca, and how I think unique your approach is in here. It shouldn't be unique, but I think it really is quite unique. 

And I said it earlier in the show guys, that we had some really exciting news to share today. I had been bantering with Rebecca for a long time to come and join our mentorship program, to be a mentor at the roadmap. Now, this to me is massive. Rebecca's smiling as I say this, but our program and who we work with and our reputation and the credibility and

Andy Graham (39:39.646)

All of that stuff is so important. It's probably the single most important thing to us as a business. So today there's only Jake and Lucy that have worked alongside me as mentors, but Rebecca, I think your character and your background and skills and the way that you've applied yourself and of course what you've achieved. I just thought you would be a superb mentor. And I'm sure everyone listening today can see exactly why. 

Well, the good news is Rebecca has agreed, come on board with us at the roadmap and do a bit of mentorship. Obviously this is going to be a very much part-time thing for Rebecca because a main thing is a main thing, building the portfolio. But now I've convinced you to come and do this with us, Rebecca. Can you just tell us a little bit about why? Because you could have very easily said, no, you've got plenty of other things to do.

Rebecca: Yeah. So there are a couple of things. I mean, I think the first thing is, this is speaking to people and getting them kind of with a strategy and kind of with goals that they're then going forwards and keeping them on track. It's something that I really enjoy. It's something that I'm really passionate about. I really strongly believe that whatever stage you're at, it's really important. I have a coach. I will always, I think as long as you are still wanting to grow, you need somebody that you can bounce ideas off that will hold you accountable. 

So it's something I think is really important and also something that I think I have a lot of value to add, which is really important to me that you know, I am adding value to whoever it is that I'm coaching. The other thing for me is also, you know, I've spoken about diversifying our portfolio. This is also the next few years for me is about diversifying income streams and doing things that work for our family. We like to travel and actually this is something that I can do wherever I am in the world. It's flexible. So yeah, I think as much as I know that I'm going to really enjoy it, but also it fits in with what my goals are for the lifestyle that we're living, which is also really important.

Andy Graham (41:38.286)

Well, I have got absolutely no doubt whatsoever that you're going to be an incredible mentor and help a lot of people achieve some really incredible things. Do you know what? I just love that we've finally been able to bring a woman on to do this, Rebecca. It's actually, we know that this is a really male dominated environment and that we have found ourselves as education providers, that it's really difficult to get women who want to do this themselves to come forward and to work with us. We understand why. 

And I think to have you as an ambassador, as a mentor, flying that flag, helping other people and of course women to do this. I think it's just a really incredible thing for the whole industry. So I'm super excited that you're going to be joining us. If anyone, and I'm sure this is everybody, but anybody listening today that wants to achieve what Rebecca has been able to achieve and has resonated with what Rebecca has said today and is interested in actually maybe starting to level things up and embarking on that journey to really start putting things into practice. You can head to thehmoroadmap.co.uk

There will be a page for Rebecca or you can just reach out directly to Rebecca on Instagram. Rebecca, what's your handle?

Rebecca: @jollypropertyjp on Instagram. Yeah. So message me on there or directly through the website.

Andy Graham: We'll send out some emails once the podcast has gone live. Of course, there's an incredible case study and a masterclass from Rebecca already inside the HMO roadmap. So there's loads of good stuff you want to go see a little bit more about some of Rebecca's stuff. It's all waiting for you inside the roadmap. But Rebecca, we're so pleased that you're going to be joining us as a mentor. I've really enjoyed today's conversation. Like I said, I think we could have gone on for hours. I certainly could have. So much great stuff there. But thank you for joining us back on the show again. Thank you for joining us as mentor. And well, what can I say? We're looking forward to doing a lot more of this in the near future.

Rebecca: You too Andy, thank you.

Andy Graham (43:28.654)

That is it for today's episode guys. Thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Rebecca and I. I'm sure you did. I'm sure that you will agree that that is a truly inspirational and really motivating story. Rebecca's journey to success. Wow, what a story that was. If you want to work with Rebecca, trust me, spaces are going to be very, very, very limited, but head to thehmorodmap.co.uk forward slash mentorship. There'll be a page there for Rebecca or like Rebecca said, just feel free to reach out directly on Instagram. 

But if it's time to take things to that next level. If you want to take it seriously, if you're struggling to overcome some of these challenges that we've discussed or more in today's episode, then it might be your signal to find yourself a good mentor, someone to help you through the challenges, over the obstacles, through the difficult times, someone to help speed up the process, someone to help you get it right. That is it, guys. Thank you again for tuning in. And don't forget that I'll be right back here in the very same place next week. So please join me then for another installment of the HMO Podcast.