Master Your Property Finances: A Simple (But World Class) Tip That Takes Under 10 Minutes a Week

Are you managing the finances for your property business effectively?

In this episode, I’m going to share a simple but powerful tip to help you manage your property business finances. You might be wondering why this matters so much.

Well, there are two big reasons. First, if you’re not keeping track of your finances, you can’t really measure how well your business is doing. Without that insight, you’re flying blind.

Second, ignoring your finances can lead to a bunch of small problems that will eat up your time and energy. As a property investor, your time is valuable. You didn’t start this business just to spend all your time managing it. The goal is to make money and get some of your time back. 

So, stick around, and I’ll show you exactly how I manage my property business finances. This approach could help you streamline your work and reclaim your time.

-

Please leave us a quick review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify if you find this episode useful.

Got any questions? Ask us in The HMO Community Facebook Group or follow me on Instagram @andygraham.hmo for daily HMO tips and advice! 

If you want to join my 1-2-1 mentoring program, you can enquire here. 

New to HMOs? Join The HMO Roadmap on a premium plan and unlock our award-winning library of 400+ resources to help you start, scale and systemise your HMO business. 

Transcript

Andy Graham (00:02.67)
Hey, I'm Andy and you're listening to the HMO Podcast. Over 10 years ago, I set myself the challenge of building my own property portfolio. And what began as a short -term investment plan soon became a long -term commitment to change the way young people live together. I've now built several successful businesses. I've raised millions of pounds of investment and I've managed thousands of tenants. Join me and some very special guests to discover the tips, tricks and hacks, the ups and the downs, the best practice and everything else you need to know to start, scale and systemise your very own HMO portfolio now.

Andy Graham (00:40.598)
In today's episode, I'm going to share a simple but very effective solution to help you manage the finances of your property business. Now, why is this so important? Well, actually there are two reasons. The first reason is because if you're not managing your financial information, you simply can't measure the performance. And if you're not able to measure the performance, then you have no idea how well your property business is actually doing.

And the second reason is because if you don't do this, will inevitably create lots of problems and lots of small issues that you need to deal with. That'll suck you in. And as a property investor, protecting your time should be one of your highest priorities. I can almost guarantee that you didn't start building property business so that you could spend all of your time doing it. The objective is surely to generate the income and get your time back. Well, this is one of those great solutions to help get some of your time back.

In today's episode, I'm going to teach you exactly how I manage the finances in my property business. Please sit back, relax, and enjoy today's episode of the HMO Podcast.

Hey guys, it's Andy here. We're going to be getting back to the podcast in just a moment, but before we do, I want to tell you very quickly about the HMO roadmap. Now, if you're serious about replacing your income, or perhaps you've already got a HMO portfolio that you want to scale up, then the HMO roadmap really is your one-stop shop. Inside the roadmap, you'll find a full 60 lesson course delivered by me, teaching you how to find more deals, how to fund more deals and raise private finance, how to refurbish great properties, how to fill them with great tenants that stay for longer, and how to manage your properties and tenants for the future.

We've also got guest workshops added every single month. We've got new videos added every single week about all sorts of topics. We've got downloadable resources, cheat sheets and swipe files to help you. We've got case studies from guests and community members who are doing incredible projects that you can learn from. And we've also built an application just for you.

Andy Graham (02:37.304)
that allows you to appraise and evaluate your deals, stack them side by side and track the key metrics that are most important to you. To find out more, head to theHMOroadmap.co.uk now and come and join our incredible community of HMO property investors.

Andy Graham (02:58.376)
Welcome back, gang. So today I'm going to share my system, my process, if you like, for managing financial information in my property business. Actually, truth be told, I use this system for all my businesses, my trading businesses, my property businesses, my investment businesses, because it is so easy to do and it's so efficient and it's so effective. It's a great time saver. Like I said in the intro, that's got to be one of your priorities as a business owner.

Generate the income, you've got to protect your time, but also because it's really, really important that as business owners, we are tracking the performance of our business. And the only way we can do that accurately is if we manage the financial information that's going in and out of our business. And the system process that I'm going to talk to you about today allows you to do exactly that. And at the end of the week, the end of the month, the end of the year, everything you need to see from a financial point of view is incredibly transparent and that allows you to continue as you progress through the year making decisions to keep tweaking the performance.

We're to get into all of this and loads more in today's episode, but I promise this is going to be a really useful exercise for anyone who's either just getting started or maybe even got a very established property business that is just getting sucked in and doesn't quite know where they are at with the numbers, with the finances. Now, before we get stuck in today's episode, I wanted to do something just a little bit different at the end of a lot of our episodes, you'll know that I often ask or even beg for you guys to leave me a review because it helps so much and it gives me that warm fluffy feeling inside.

However, I've never actually read any of them out on the show and I thought it might be fun to do that. And actually we've got about 150 reviews across the Apple and Spotify platform. The ones that allow you to review and I think we're about 4.95 stars, which is fantastic. You guys are awesome. We've got tens of thousands of listeners. You tune in every single week. You are so consistent and so loyal and I'm incredibly grateful, but I've never actually read any of the reviews out. So I thought today I would just pick a couple and thought it might be nice to read a couple quickly on the show. So this is a review from Hearthill Investments. Hearthill Investments title was Game Changer left a fantastic five star review. Thank you so much. Connecting with this podcast and Andy has been a

Andy Graham (05:14.734)
game changer for me as I am back to my property investment journey. thank you so much, Harkhill investments. Can't tell you how much that means to me. It's really cool knowing that you guys are still out there discovering the podcast for the first time. I mean, we've been here for almost four years now, which is crazy. 270 episodes in now and there's still people discovering the show for the first time, but it's so cool. Thank you so much for that review. Keep tuning in Harkhill investments because there's so much more good stuff to come. And hopefully this was a nice little surprise with your review and comments out on the show.

Now, let me read you another one. This one is slightly more recent from Red Cheds. Cool name. Get those eyes open. Red Cheds left a four star review on Apple. Thank you so much Red Cheds. And for a newbie like myself looking around, assessing my options as to whom I'm going to invest into, these podcasts are a good checkpoint to get you truly thinking, but also give you the reassurance and confidence that you need. Thank you so much Red Cheds. Love to know.

I'm quite getting that five stars from you. I'm sure there's something in there. Keep listening. If you change your opinion, give us that five stars, but let me know, drop me a DM because honestly, anything that I can do to make this listening experience better for you guys, whether it's slightly different content, whether it's different guests on the show, whether it's a slightly different format, whether it's different topics, whatever it is, I am totally open to it because the objective is just to make it as good as I possibly can for you guys.

But that is so nice to hear from Red Cheds because actually if I can reassure you guys, if I can help you make those decisions, just give you that little boost of confidence where you need it most. Cause I know how tough it can be making the decisions, knowing what to do, who to do it with, how to do it. You know, it's complicated stuff. And we're talking about spending hundreds of thousands of pounds off them, our HMOs and properties and things like that. So if these podcasts just help give you that little bit of reassurance, that extra little bit of confidence then.

I am doing my job. Thank you so much. Red Cheds. Thank you to all of you who tune into the show. Right. Shall we get stuck into today's episode? Let's get down to some business. Let's talk about some financial management. Now don't switch off at this point, cause I get it. I know that it sounds a little bit dull, a little bit boring. It's not necessarily the sexy side of stuff, but what if I told you that actually managing your money could be sexy. It could give you your time back. It could actually help you make more money. Okay. Well.

Andy Graham (07:35.786)
Now I bet you're thinking about sticking around. Look, this is a process and a system that I use, like I said, in all of my property businesses and all my trading businesses. It is so simple, so easy and so efficient. It's an absolute no brainer. I think if you're not doing it, honestly, you're missing a huge trick. So today that is exactly what we're to be talking about. And I think that this is, if you're not already doing it, going to really kind of change your business for the better. And the cool thing is you can do this almost immediately.

Very little groundwork you have to do to get this off the ground. So let's talk a little bit, first of all, about the importance of financial management. I'm not going to try and talk like an accountant. I'm not an accountant. I'm a business owner. I'm a property guy. I don't really want to get involved in the accounts, but I do want to be able to manage my business efficiently. I think it's really important for a few reasons. I've mentioned a couple already, but also just keeping on top of things like payments, avoiding late payments, keeping on top of your expenses, keeping an eye on

When expenses might be creeping up and your bottom line profits might be drifting, keeping an eye on tax management, making sure that you are planning for that tax bill if and when it comes. The complexity of managing multiple tenants, it gets increasingly more complicated and difficult to manage your money. The more tenants and the more properties that you have. Just think about the number of bills that you have for every property. You've got all your utility bills. You've often got council tax bills. You've got maintenance coming in. You've got all your rental income, payments, you've got deposits to manage in and out.

You might have various other bits and pieces happening. And that's before you even think about a refurbishment and all of the costs that might be coming in and going out of your business because you're repurposing a property. Look, if you've already bought a property, if you're already managing tenants, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. If you haven't, if you're right at the beginning of your planning, all of this stuff, then trust me, there's a lot, there's so much from a financial point of view that happens that you do need to keep a track of.

Now, historically, the old school way of doing all of this was that we just collect receipts. We'd literally have it all written down at end of the year. We just give all those receipts to our accountants and it would kind of do the job, but it would only do the job in the sense that they could do our tax return at the end of the year. Our accountants could prepare our tax return. And by the way, not talking at all about tax returns and us doing tax returns, but this is a much more efficient and effective way of collecting all of your financial data and managing it.

Andy Graham (09:59.456)
So there's a system that I use. You don't have to use this system. There are other systems available, but I choose to use this one. I use an accounting system called Xero. Stick with me. I'm not an accounting. This isn't about accounting per se, so don't worry. But Xero is essentially a piece of accounting software, but it's a really cool piece of software that's really easy to use. And it's great for people like you and I. Great for property business owners, great for general business owners, great for small business owners and very big business owners as well.

But it is really, really good for small businesses. So if you've got a portfolio of one or two or three or sort of 10, 20, 30 properties, it is absolutely brilliant. It's exactly what you need. Nothing more and nothing less. And you can really grow into it. It's not one of those systems that's really overwhelming. It really is incredibly simple. So basically it has a number of features that are often relevant to business owners like us, especially property investors. We can track income, we can track expenditure.

We can record invoices, we can generate invoices, we can actually manipulate a chart of accounts. We can look at various reporting tools. We can report on the P and L. We can actually track by categories or we can track by properties. We can compare things side by side. We can look at the last month's date to the last three months date. So we can compare that to the three months before we can look at last year's, we can compare it to the year before we can do all of this really cool stuff.

We can track all of our expenses. We can automate invoicing. We can have actual real time financial reporting. And that whole sort of kit and caboodle means that we can just manage our business really, really effectively. And the scary thing is when people hear something like accounting software is it sounds like it'd be really complicated and it isn't. And you're going to just have to trust me on this one until you use it and you'll find out yourself, but it isn't. It's really simple to use.

So what I'm going to do is I'm going to explain a really simple four or five step process that you can actually implement in your own business to do this yourself. I promise you once it's set up, it won't take any more than about five or 10 minutes a week, about 30, 40 minutes a month, if that honestly, and you will have such a great sort of oversight on your business at any point in time. And your accountant will love you because at the end of the year, they'll just be able to log in. You can give them.

Andy Graham (12:17.9)
their own access as an accountant and they can see all of the data. So no more going back through all your paperwork, chasing invoices, trying to figure out what this payment was for and what that payment was for. No time needs to be wasted doing any of that rubbish. Okay. It'll all be done for you. So very quickly, what kind of we do with Xero, when we get it set up, the first thing that we can do is we can actually plug our bank feed in. So we can connect Xero to our bank and it will pull in that bank feed. So the statement lines every single day.

What that means is that it then displays a little bit like your bank feed into Xero. Now, of course, the issue with looking at your bank statement every day is that there's usually pretty random transaction names. Often we don't know where things have actually come from or gone from, especially if you've got a lot of transactions. But with Xero, it's a little bit different because you have the name of the supplier, can have a description with it, and actually you can start to combine it with expense categories and things like that.

The second thing we can do is we can create or we can manipulate a chart of accounts. So let me try and make this really simple for you. When you set up zero, it'll come with a pretty standard chart of accounts. And that chart of accounts is let's say 20, 30, 40 different options of how you might want to categorize any income or expenditure. So let's say you've got some money from a tenant. Well, that would probably want to be reconciled as rental income. Let's say you spend 50 pound on cleaning that might want to get expensed in the tracking category specifically for cleaning. You might want a specific tracking category for gas or gas and electric or gas, electricity and water utilities, which is typically how I do it. You might have tracking categories for legal costs. You might have tracking categories for professional fees, like surveys. You'll probably have a tracking category for something like insurance. And you can have all of these account codes for different things.

And that's really, really useful because what that means is when your bank feed comes in to zero, whether it's an income or an expenditure, it can be reconciled and it can be reconciled against either a payment that you're expecting to make or a payment that you're expecting to receive because perhaps you've received an invoice and you can also then expense it to a certain category. So you can choose, for example, professional fees or insurance.

Andy Graham (14:41.87)
And as you continue through the year, all of these income and expenditure lines will get allocated to these various account codes in Xero. And that then produces some really useful information and tells you exactly where you're spending your money and where you're receiving your money from. So let's say for example, you spend a bit of money every single month on maintenance. You probably don't quite know how much and

if you're not using a system like Xero, it's almost impossible unless you are tracking it in some sort of a spreadsheet, have all of your invoices in front of you to know exactly how much you are spending every single month. Xero, for example, you can literally go in, you can look at the P &L for that month or any given month. You can go into that account code. You can actually look at how much you have been spending on repair and maintenance. You can go into every single transaction and look at what you spent it on. Who did you spend it with? How much did you pay? What was it for? And that is such great.

data, it's really, really good to have, and it's really useful to be able to just manage what's going on in your business at any point in time, because things do tend to drift costs creep up, sometimes actually doing better than expected. So anyway, anything that is coming in or going out of your business, you can expense to an account code. So there's something called a chart of accounts in there. Like I said, there's a default set of accounts in there, but you can actually just manipulate it and create your own and can add and remove them.

If you're a member of the HMO roadmap, you can actually just download my chart of accounts and you can literally plug that in. So you can swap the default one for my one really, really simple. And as you might imagine that set up to manage properties really, really well. So that's something that you can do. You can then actually generate invoices and you can check out standing invoices and draft bills and things like that. So everything that needs your attention from a financial point of view can be managed in there rather than it flying around inboxes and having folders in your Google Drive, which is not really the best place to put this sort of information.

You can actually do all of this on an app. You can actually generate expenses. So as a director of your business, you're probably expensing it rather than have to faff around at the end of every month, going through your receipts. You can literally pay for something, take a picture, send it to zero. It'll all get expensed for you. Like I said, you can review key financial reports so you can pull off the profit and loss cashflow statement. You can look at vat return

Andy Graham (16:58.35)
you do all sorts of things. You can literally manage everything that you could possibly imagine. But the key things for me is managing cashflow, managing my profit and loss. What I want to know is actually what am I spending? What am I bringing in every month? And what am I actually making net profit before tax every single month in all of my businesses? And this allows you to do it. So once we've got Xero set up, what we do is every week we go in, we spend honestly 10 minutes. You'll probably have.

Depending on the number of transactions in your business, let's say you've got one or two properties, you'll have no more than a dozen transactions. Each of those transactions can get reconciled according to perhaps an invoice that you've received that you made a payment against or sort of a bill in the system, or maybe it's rental income or something that you're expecting. It's really user friendly. So if there's something in the system and it's expecting that payment,it will be able to reconcile automatically against it.

You can quickly just check the details. Yes, that supplier is right. It's the right category. It is insurance or maintenance is tax relevant or not on that payment. And then you literally just press. Okay. And the system is really clever. So the more times you do this and the most similar payments that you reconcile, the more automated zero becomes for you. And often you'll be logging in and for example, if it's just rental income, it might look the same every single month from the same person.

And the system will start to automatically recognize that payment. And you can just literally go on and click yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, And those statement lines all get reconciled and it clears your dashboard down eventually back to zero. And in 10 minutes a week, you could clear your dashboard down. And that means that if you were then to go into one of your reporting tools, like your PNL, it's all that real time. You can actually see what the performance is of your business that week at that very point in time.

If you're not doing it like this, you simply don't know. And that's really, really useful. One of the great things for this is if you're managing refurbishment, it's great having spreadsheets to plan and manage all of this stuff. But actually at the end of the day, the bank account never lies. And usually it doesn't quite align with what your spreadsheet might've said. So you can actually run all of your refurbishments through Xero. So let's say you buy a property tomorrow.

Andy Graham (19:15.906)
The actual purchase of that property can all get reconciled in zero. You might need a little bit of help with your accountant. If for example, some of your money moved straight to a solicitor and maybe didn't pass through your bank account. Let's say for example, you're getting a mortgage. The mortgage company owner are likely to send you that money directly for a new loan. They're actually going to send that money straight to the solicitors, but it still needs accounting for in the software and you've still bought a property of a certain value. It's a couple of little things like that that your accountants can sort, but that's dead easy for them.

But when you start your refurbishment, you might spend a hundred thousand pounds on lots and lots of different things. Labour, materials, paints, all sorts of things. You could spend it on hundreds and hundreds of different things and lots of payment lines. And Xero allows you to reconcile every single one of those payments against an invoice. Now there's a number of ways in Xero that you can speed up and automate processes even more so. A quick example is you can utilize a system called Dext.

Xero has its own called Hubdoc, but Dex and Hubdoc, what they allow you to do is actually receive an email with an invoice in it. So let's say you go to Screwfix, you buy some plumbing gear for a hundred pounds. You'll get emailed that invoice. You've actually made that in your bank account. So that payment will appear in Xero as a statement line and the invoice that you've got from Screwfix, you can forward straight to Dex or straight to Hubdoc. That will then be managed in the backend and appear in Xero as a draft bill. And essentially the system is very clever and it'll recognize, right, this is from, this is an invoice from Screwfix for this amount.

And it'll actually say on that what it was for. And you can very quickly just check are all those details correct? Yes. Do they match this payment in the bank? Yes, they do. And you reconcile it and you can do that for every single payment. You get an invoice from your contractor. You get an invoice from your decorator, from your electrician, if you're buying stuff on Amazon, all of these things that generate invoices, you can send straight to Xero. It can all be automated. It'll appear as a draft bill. You'll go on. The paint will be there to match against the draft bills and you tick yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, done. And it's reconciled and that's your accounting done. So if you're managing a hundred thousand pound refurb, this is an absolute no brainer. Cause not only is it dead easy and dead efficient and dead accurate, but actually.

Andy Graham (21:35.926)
Everything that you might need in the future to come back to is in this system. How often do you need to go back and find out or remember where you bought, for example, the electric shower that has failed. It's going to save you going through the drawer because you can literally type in something like screw fix or electric shower. You can search through your invoice. It'll come up. You can recall exactly where you got it, what the model was. The invoice is there with the detail and the spec of the product that you bought. Dead easy. Pick up the phone, make a call if you need a replacement or whatever it might be.

But there's so many reasons why this will save you so much time. This is the sort of thing. If you have an issue, you're going back through all your paper, trying to find out where you bought this bloody shower from, trying to find a replacement, not sure where it was from or how much you paid or who you need to call or what the model even was. And it can take you hours. And the more properties you have, the more of these sorts of issues exist. So cool thing is you can do all of this in Xero and it's dead, dead easy.

You can track an entire refurbishment on something like a control account. Like I said, you can have tracking categories for particular properties. So let's say you've got an SPV and you've got several properties in an SPV and you've got income and expenditure going out of the same bank account, but for different properties. Well, great thing is Xero allows you to track it against each property. So if this sort of hundred pound maintenance bill was for the property on Robo road and this other invoice of 200 pounds was for the property on St. Mary's street. Then you can track them appropriately. What you can eventually do, you can then go into the system. can just, you can do all of your reports simply based on a property. You can do a full report across the whole business. You can do a full report across some of the properties. You can do a full report across a particular property. So you can get really, really granular know exactly what you're spending on exactly what.

So trust me, if this is sounding a little bit complicated, just go and have a play around with something like zero. There are like, think Sage is another system. There are a couple of others. Have a play around. It'll cost you about 15 quid a month, maybe just to get started. Maybe I think I pay about 30 quid for most of our subscriptions. It just gives you the ability to reconcile a few more transactions every month. But I promise you'll find it actually doesn't take that much time at all. Once you've spent a month or so doing this, it'll be the easiest thing in the world. And you'll wish you, you'll just think, why did I not just do this from the outset?

Andy Graham (23:58.368)
I run this across all of my businesses. Like I said, now, one of the things that you can do is once this is set up, you can actually just hand it to a bookkeeper. You don't even have to do the reconciliation yourself. You might just want to do it and go in and do the report checking and keep an eye on things at a very high level. If you've got a really simple business with very few transactions or even decent sized portfolio, but with very few transactions, because it runs very well and efficiently, you really don't need a bookkeeper to do this sort of stuff.

Because honestly, all the legwork is in collecting the invoices and just getting it into the system and all of that can be automated for you with a tool like Xero. You've got a lot of stuff going on, a lot of businesses yet maybe you do want a bit of bookkeeping done for you, but it's an absolute piece of cake to recruit someone that can do this sort of bookkeeping. lots of people who specialize in bookkeeping for systems like Xero or Sage or whatever it might be. They just need to understand how you want it to be done. How you want it to be reconciled, what sort of account codes, needs to be expensed against.

They need to know that British gas bills go into the utilities account code. It might sound obvious, but it's not always obvious to people who don't necessarily understand you and your property business. Look, I know this is a bit of a whistle stop tour about Xero and financial management, but honestly, it's that easy. You don't really need to me to give you much more on this guys. Just trust me. If you haven't already got this set up, if you're just starting a property business now is the best possible time to get this done.

If you've got an established business where you can start now, okay, you can actually go back and you can backdate and import statements from like earlier in the year or whatever you might want to do. You've got a little bit of an exercise of reconciling everything sort of before today's date, if you like, but honestly, it's really, really easy. And I hope more than anything, I've helped you understand why this tool can be so useful and so efficient in your business. It'll take you about an hour to set up and just get the hang of.

After the first month, you'll be absolutely flying with it. It'll be a piece of cake. You can do it with your eyes closed. And honestly, even with a decent sized portfolio, you won't need to spend any more than 10 minutes a week just keeping on top of this. Just do a bit of housekeeping, reconciling everything down. And there might be one or two invoices or payments that don't quite match that you just need to do a little bit investigating about. And honestly, that'll be it. You've got all your reports, you know exactly where you're at for the month.

Andy Graham (26:15.576)
You can forget about it and you can focus on the things that matter more, which are obviously finding deals, your service to tenants, you're keeping on top of refurbishments and budgets. That really, really important stuff that as a business owner, as a property investor, you should be focusing on. But honestly, having this set up will save you hours and hours and hours of time and frustrations and going back through paperwork and invoices, giving it to your accountant, trying to help them figure out everything. Honestly, this is the only way to do it.

And I promise it's probably even easier than I've made out today. That is about it for today's episode guys. I hope you have found some value in that. I hope you found it useful. If you do go and trial Xero, let me know how you get on. Come over to the HMO community, share your thoughts, experience, opinions. Maybe Xero is not the tool that you like to use. Maybe it's something else. Just one final point actually, before I finish up guys, I forgot to say Xero integrates with a lot of other software programs.

You can actually, for example, COHO, one of our partners, property management software, great for you guys and us managing HMO properties. Well, actually Xero plugs in, actually integrates with COHO. It's really clever and it's also really, really easy. But yeah, coming over to the HMO community, let us know what you think you've got any questions, advice, experience to share. We want to know. And it doesn't just have to be about financial management, anything, buying, building, problem tenants, what a future holds, whatever it is.

Common Chats in the HMO community. It is the best place to go and hang out with like -minded investors and it is an absolute fountain of knowledge. Of course, if you want to level things up, then you need to head over to theHMOroadmap.co.uk. That is where you'll find everything you could possibly need to start and scale and systemize your HMO property business. You'll find over 400 resources of different types, video lessons, master classes, case studies, downloadable resources, the deal stacker.

Plus we've got lots of exclusive discounts with my HMO powere team. There's an exclusive discount to Coho for example, nothing for Xero. I think they're probably a little bit too broad for us to partner with, but we are doing our best across the board. Honestly, there's so much there for you. Go and check it out. And if you want to get your hands on the chart of accounts that you can use in Xero, I'll make sure that my chart of accounts is available as a downloadable resource inside the HMO roadmap. So if you've not already joined, if you're not a member, go and check it out. It will cost you less than a price of a cup of coffee every single.

Andy Graham (28:41.358)
date and I guarantee you will save an order of magnitude more than that by simply following the advice from me and our community members that's waiting for you inside the HMO roadmap. And finally, if you've got 30 seconds, please consider joining Heart Hill Investments and Red Chess by reviewing the podcast. You can leave review on both Apple podcasts and Spotify. Like I said, it means the world to me and my team more than you could possibly know.

It helps us continue to spread the message about the great stuff that you guys out there in our community are doing for our industry slowly but surely. We are changing the narrative around HMOs. It gives me that warm fuzzy feeling inside. It makes me feel great. The feedback helps. We are here and I'm here to try and make the listening experience as good as I possibly can. But if you are enjoying it, please, please, please let us know because we do appreciate it and it helps so much. That's it for today's episode guys. Thank you so much for tuning in. And of course, don't forget that I'll be right back here in the very same place next week. So please join me then for another installment of the HMO Podcast.