How To Use Social Media To Amplify Your Business Results WIth Milly Bellotti

In this episode, I'm chatting with Milly Bellotti from @postingproperty. Milly really knows her stuff when it comes to using social media, especially for property businesses.

She talked about her journey, starting from working at big companies in social media to starting her own property business and helping others in the property industry.

Milly stressed the importance of being yourself on social media. She explained how being genuine can help people trust you and want to invest with you. We also discussed how social media can help grow your property business by building your brand.

Whether you're new to social media for your property business or looking for some extra tips, this episode is for you.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Andy Graham: Hey, I'm Andy and you're listening to the HMO podcast. Over 10 years ago, I set myself the challenge of building my own property portfolio. And what began as a short term investment plan soon became a long term commitment to change the way young people live together. I've now built several successful businesses.

[00:00:19] Andy Graham: I've raised millions of pounds of investment and I've managed thousands of tenants. Join me and some very special guests to discover their tips, tricks, and hacks. The ups and the downs, the best practice and everything else you need to know. To start, scale and systemise your very own HMO portfolio now.

[00:00:39] Andy Graham: Would raising more private finance help you build the business that you want? Would finding more deals and opportunities help you build the business that you want? What about finding more people to connect with? Finding more guidance and inspiration, support and motivation? Would all of this stuff help you build the business that you want?

[00:00:54] Andy Graham: Well, if it would, then I'm pleased to tell you that today I am joined by Milly Bellotti. Now, as you're about to find out, Milly is a bit of an expert when it comes to social media, but quite specifically using social media for our property businesses. Today, I've got a lot of questions for Milly, and we're going to find out how we can be taking better advantage of social media to build our businesses. Please sit back, Relax and enjoy today's episode of the HMO podcast.

[00:01:21] Andy Graham: Hey guys, it's Andy here. We're going to be getting back to the podcast in just a moment. But before we do, I want to tell you very quickly about the HMO roadmap. Now, if you're serious about replacing your income, or perhaps you've already got a HMO portfolio that you want to scale up, then the HMO roadmap really is your one stop shop.

[00:01:37] Andy Graham: Inside the roadmap, you'll find a full 60 lesson course delivered by me, teaching you how to find more deals, how to fund more deals and raise private finance, how to refurbish great properties, how to fill them with great tenants that stay for longer and how to manage your properties and tenants for the future.

[00:01:52] Andy Graham: We've also got guest workshops added every single month. We've got new videos added every single week about all sorts of topics. We've got downloadable resources, cheat sheets, and swipe files to help you. We've got case studies from guests and community members who are doing incredible projects that you can learn from.

[00:02:07] Andy Graham: And we've also built an application just for you that allows you to appraise and evaluate your deals, stack them side by side and track the key metrics that are most important to you. To find out more, head to thehmoroadmap.co.uk now and come and join our incredible community of HMO property investors.

[00:02:31] Andy Graham: Hi Millie, thank you for joining me on the podcast today.

[00:02:34] Milly Bellotti: Thanks for having me.

[00:02:35] Andy Graham: What a pleasure. I'm very excited about today's conversation. I think this is going to be quite a unique episode for a couple of reasons, but before we get into all of the detail, you're obviously a bit of an expert when it comes to all things social media.

[00:02:48] Andy Graham: And I think that this is probably one of the most important things for a lot of people in our industry. And for me, and we'll talk about this today, it has been absolutely essential to a lot of what I've been able to do. But before we get there and we find out about what you do and get into some of the advice and tips and tricks that you might have to share with those in our audience today, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, Milly, and perhaps your background, because kind of your speciality, I think is quite unique in the property industry.

[00:03:16] Milly Bellotti: Yeah, so before I found out about property, I didn't know anything about it. It was 2019. I was the head of social media for an advertising agency in London, that had been my job ever since I left university, working in advertising agencies, specifically in the social media department. And at the beginning, social media was like, this nothing thing.

[00:03:36] Milly Bellotti: It had no marketing budget spend. It was just a baby in the corner. And I found throughout my career in social media, it suddenly became really important and all the big companies were spending loads of money on social media. And suddenly my job was suddenly quite important going from something that traditionally TV was so much more sort of well regarded in the media industry so that was my background.

[00:03:56] Milly Bellotti: And then I went on like a property, two hour, how can you find passive income? Sort of one of those thoughts. I'm sure you've seen that before. And it did change my mindset loads. I thought, actually, what am I doing here? I'm going to work every day, you know, they call it a nine to five, because you never work till five.

[00:04:13] Milly Bellotti: It was much longer. And I looked at my bosses and I, I don't really wanna beat you in 10 years. And, and that's where I thought, well, actually property could be that. And so I quite rashly quit my job, very well paid job, very good job in London, and I moved up to the Northeast where my partner was from, he was Geordie, and he'd been trying to convince me to move up here for years and years saying it's the best place in the whole world, Geordie's are great.

[00:04:36] Milly Bellotti: And we moved up here to do property and I haven't looked back since. Oh wow. And started investing in sort of buy to let in the Northeast, in BRRRs. And then, um, I started actually missing the social media side, but not doing it for big brands. Because I was, I had now joined social media as a property investor, and I was looking at all the other property investors in social media.

[00:04:57] Milly Bellotti: And I thought, actually, I could help these people. There's all this knowledge I have from my previous job, and I can see people struggling here, and I want to help. And that's where I actually discovered I can do both. I can do property, and I can do social media, and I can align those two things together. And that's what I do now.

[00:05:11] Andy Graham: Wow. And I mean, that is quite a big jump, isn't it, Millie? Working for some very big companies. I think, you know, you working for some, some huge companies, in fact, and Moving away from that to do your own thing in itself is just a, just kind of a huge task and then folding into your skills, it must have all been been quite daunting, but somewhere along the way, this, this plan to cover a real turn, didn't it, Milly?

[00:05:35] Andy Graham: I mean, I follow you, you and your story and have done for a while and you have an incredibly unique story, but also a really quite a sad story that there's now, I believe, really kind of fueling a lot of your passion for what you're doing, isn't it? Can you share a bit of that with us, Milly?

[00:05:50] Milly Bellotti: Yeah, so as I said, I started in property with my partner.

[00:05:52] Milly Bellotti: He was the one who dragged me to the property course, and then he wasn't expecting for me to be the catalyst to be like, actually, you're right. Let's do this. And he was like, Okay, great. So yeah, I moved up here with him and we started the property business together. And it was going really great. But aim he was in the Navy.

[00:06:07] Milly Bellotti: And my goal on my vision board was get Joe out of the Navy. And it was like, right up there. I get him out there. I got out of my job. I wanted him out his as well. And that was what we were working towards, um, getting there, and we were actually in the middle of a refurb when we were both in a car accident, and he passed away, sadly.

[00:06:23] Milly Bellotti: I broke most of my body, 12 bones, uh, ruptured my spleen, deflated my lungs, I really, really messed up my body, and he didn't make it at all, although he did donate organs, and several people are now alive because of him, which is absolutely incredible, and I'm so proud of him. I'm happy about that. But it was a slow sort of road to recovery myself and going through grief as well.

[00:06:44] Milly Bellotti: And I've come out the other end of it feeling like I'm so grateful for the property community because I was already on social media obviously doing what I do now. And it really is like, it's like a family and they've helped me get through it. And there are many times since then when I thought, well, what's the point?

[00:06:57] Milly Bellotti: Why should I do property anymore? I've not got Joe here, not working towards that goal of getting him out. Why, why bother? And actually what I keep coming back to is the community, like, you are the reason that I still want to continue doing this and that I haven't done it all in, so I'm incredibly grateful for the community that I built on social media, and that's one of the things I love about social media, like, these people are your friends, like, you meet them in real life after having spent, had loads of DMs back and forth after following them and You create a real community.

[00:07:25] Andy Graham: You really do. And I'm sure we'll talk about that more. So today as we get into social media and how investors can use it, but tell us a little bit about Joe's cottage, because this is again, been part of your story that I've been following. And this is a project that you've continued with and I think are still continuing with it. Is that right, Millie? Or is it finished now?

[00:07:44] Milly Bellotti: It's finished now, finally finished. Um, but yeah, Joey's Cottage was one, it's a holiday let, my first holiday let, until now I've just done BRRRs, and this is my first holiday let in the town right next to where he, Len, grew up and where Len lives. and I've called it Joey's Cottage and it's filled with a lot of these things because he actually had a holiday let before, actually not before we met, at the beginning of our relationship he had a holiday let and it was full of Northumberland pictures because and a lot of the stuff from there from our house has actually gone into Joey's Cottage so there's a lot of like Joe in there, and it's more of a passion project than my other ones have been.

[00:08:19] Milly Bellotti: My other ones have just been, let's get the money in, let's get it out, let's get it moving. Whereas for this project, it's more, it's using funds from him and for him. a cause that, which was the top of, when we went to the property training course, what was the number one thing that he wanted to do? It was help his family. And so the profits from this are going there.

[00:08:37] Andy Graham: Oh, well, at the end of today's episode, we'll make sure that all of our listeners have got your details so that they can go and give you a follow yourself if they're not already following you. But we've certainly really enjoyed watching you share this story with us.

[00:08:49] Andy Graham: And I mean, it's so inspiring, but at the same time, it has obviously been such a difficult time for you over the past few years. And there's no doubt, Joe would be so incredibly proud of you. And I think that looking at what you're doing and taking on sort of the mountain of building your own business and then property projects yourself as well, it is so, so inspiring.

[00:09:08] Andy Graham: And I completely get what you're saying and talking about when it comes to the community, because. It can be tough in this industry. It's very difficult building businesses. And actually, if your friend and family network isn't in the industry themselves, it's actually very, very lonely place, isn't it? And just having people to share ideas with and find motivation and enthusiasm, sometimes a bit of censorship, just to keep you in line.

[00:09:31] Andy Graham: Inspiration and all that stuff is so important. And I think really that's one of the reasons why I have leaned so much so into our community and building the community that we have because I have found so much personal, not commercial, but personal benefit from doing it. Let's talk a little bit then about what you actually do Milly.

[00:09:50] Andy Graham: Tell us about sort of how you have taken your skills from sort of the big business industry and started to apply it to the property sector and how you've actually been able to utilise that yourself.

[00:10:02] Milly Bellotti: It is entirely different, isn't it? Because what we do as property investors, for the most part, we're one or two person teams, right?

[00:10:08] Milly Bellotti: Sometimes it's slightly bigger, but for the most part, most people I work with are one man band or two person couple or brother and sister or whatever. And so it's very different doing social media from a personal branding div, which is what we want to do as property investors. And actually, that's one of the biggest mistakes I see when property investors join social media, is they try and pretend they're a big business.

[00:10:30] Milly Bellotti: So they're almost, you know, they're hiding behind a logo, they're calling themselves by their limited company name. They're doing all the things that you would do if you were, say, Walker's Crisps, my old client. But Walker's Crisps isn't going to show the CEO sat there, you know, going, looking at the factory and did that.

[00:10:45] Milly Bellotti: Obviously not what's going to happen. That's not what they do. Whereas us as individuals and small businesses where we're trying to show who we are should really be doing much more of the personal branding side and less of the big corporate using the words we when it's only one person. Like it's just quite funny that people feel the need to do that.

[00:11:03] Milly Bellotti: I think it's from a feeling of being nervous about putting themselves out there. And that's why they deal with that. Oh, I don't want anyone to know who I really am. That's why I'm not going to show my face. And I'm going to say, we, and I'm going to use my limited company name. And then it's like, well, people need to know who you is. Why would they invest? Why would they want to work with you if they don't know who you are?

[00:11:21] Andy Graham: I follow a guy called James Sinclair and actually James had been on the show before. And I've spoken to a number of people about James and he shares this idea. And I think that this is, I think it's really interesting.

[00:11:31] Andy Graham: James, he's a really successful businessman. Not in the residential property space, but actually does have a lot of commercial property as well as other types of businesses. But I started listening to James several years ago, and James would often talk about this idea of having a number of different businesses.

[00:11:45] Andy Graham: There's the business that you are now that sort of pays the bills. There's the business that you want to become the kind of the vision of where you want to get this business to. There's your asset based business, which is where you can take a lot of the money and the income that you generate. You can channel it over to your asset based business and invest in assets of them.

[00:12:02] Andy Graham: Generate you an income over the long, long, long term, slower pounds. And then he talked about this idea of, and then there's the business that sticks everything together and it's your personal brand. And he describes it as a bit of like your personal media agency. That's always out there flying your flag and bringing you the opportunities and putting you in front of the right people and showing off what you're doing and allowing you to network with people.

[00:12:26] Andy Graham: And I'd never thought about it like that, but actually that it was exactly how I did. Sort of been doing it and been thinking about it. There's, I've got a business and one day I want to be like this. And I've got my properties that I'm also like continuing to build the portfolio. I was spending an awful lot of time doing all this personal branding stuff, finding that it was helping, but not really having the confidence to know that it was actually the right thing, but should I be doing other things?

[00:12:49] Andy Graham: And let's listen to James in these ideas. And it was a bit of sort of almost confirmation that actually maybe this is right, and then I've continued with it and found it incredibly, incredibly, incredibly valuable. And it's interesting that you talk about maybe some of the anxiety that people have, because I remember when I first got started, absolutely having that.

[00:13:09] Andy Graham: I felt like an imposter. I felt like a fraud. I felt like all my mates were going to take the piss out of me. And I'm pretty sure they did. Maybe even some of my family, maybe felt that it was a bit too big for my boots. And also I go back and I look at some of the stuff and I absolutely cringe and it was a learning curve, but now I'm sort of quite happy.

[00:13:31] Andy Graham: I accept that now it's a really important and key part of our business. It's like reading the emails. It's like getting back to our customers. It's like doing the inspections, our properties, our social media, and building my personal brand and everything. I need to do that is absolutely, well, in fact, I think it's more important than most of this stuff.

[00:13:50] Andy Graham: And I think a lot of people at the beginning of that journey do struggle. And for those people, Milly, like maybe just specifically for people who are just getting started. And, uh, are anxious about like being that maybe face of their business or even personal brand. What kind of advice would you share for them right now?

[00:14:06] Andy Graham: Is it just do it or are there tips and techniques or other ways to get in or find solutions that may be more comfortable or better fitting for some people?

[00:14:13] Milly Bellotti: I think a big thing that people starting out thinking is, Oh, well, I'll wait until, you know, I've got to a certain point before I can then post about it because I've got nothing to post about now.

[00:14:22] Milly Bellotti: I'm a fraud. I'm just starting out. I've got nothing to say. Actually, you've got to remember that typically if you're thinking about private investment and you want potentially friends or family people who know you to invest in you, if you wait a show, two years, get your business up and running and then start posting about it and come out of the blue and there won't be any contacts, take them on the journey with you.

[00:14:43] Milly Bellotti: Start from the first day, do your first viewing and take them on that journey. Show the consistent actions you take in your business. Show the ups and the downs, the bad, the good. And then they will feel like they are part of it. They will like, you know, you and trust you more by having done that. Then if two years later, you're like, Oh, there you go.

[00:15:01] Milly Bellotti: I've done it now. How good am I? And it's like, wait, how did that happen? Whereas if you're taking them on that journey, they get it and they're invested and also they won't do that thing, which is really annoying that people do, which is, Oh, you're so lucky. Or that was easy because you haven't shown them the hard stuff.

[00:15:16] Milly Bellotti: And then they think, Oh, maybe I should invest in property. Cause it looks like you've just done it like a breeze. And it's like, no, no, no. Let me tell you about the 71 offers I put in before my first one got accepted. It was me by the way. You need to show them that so that they can see this property thing isn't easy.

[00:15:30] Milly Bellotti: I should invest in you because you've gone through all of that and you sticking with it.

[00:15:35] Andy Graham: Would you agree? I think raising private finance is only one of the many benefits from what we're talking about today. But sticking on that kind of theme at the minute, I think that over the years, what I've learned is that people who invest with the exception of banks, people who invest in us tend to quite literally invest in us as a person.

[00:15:54] Andy Graham: The property. And the deal might be something to kind of hang the hats on. It might be something that gives it context, some degree of security even, but actually I think it's always boiled down to, do they trust me as an individual? Do they feel comfortable working with me? Do they feel like I would be the sort of person that they could have reasonable and fair conversations with if things actually didn't go right?

[00:16:17] Andy Graham: Do they feel like I'm transparent? And I feel like what you're talking about and just taking people along the journey is. The best possible way you can start to install that in people. What do you think about that?

[00:16:28] Milly Bellotti: Yeah, there are people who probably better property investors than you or I, or the next person.

[00:16:34] Milly Bellotti: There's always going to be someone who's maybe doing it better than you, right? You're all friends and family and acquaintances and wider pool of people that you've met. By the way, those are hundreds and hundreds of people. You don't need to go and find a complete stranger online to give you money.

[00:16:46] Milly Bellotti: There'll be someone in your network who's a friend of a friend or acquaintance or someone from back in school or someone from that first job. There will be someone in there who has money, they're not going to give it to some random person on Instagram who they think is a better property investor than you.

[00:17:01] Milly Bellotti: They're going to give it to you because they trust you and because they like you because of what you've been posting. So you attract your people to you, right? So in posting who you really are as a person, in showing your little quirks and your little things and what you're good at and what you care about.

[00:17:17] Milly Bellotti: you attract those people to you. So, for example, for me, I am someone who I really like the way things look and I want to make them look nice. I don't, I don't care about the boring numbers and things like that. Of course, I have to do the numbers. I have many spreadsheets, unfortunately, and I do all of that stuff, but that's not the stuff that interests me.

[00:17:34] Milly Bellotti: So, if someone was like a real howl personality and like loved the spreadsheets and the numbers, they've probably not been invested in me. Probably someone who cares more about my values and the things I care about. So think about, like, actually, instead of comparing yourself to others, think, well, what do I have that the next person doesn't have that, that might be something that my friends and family acquaintances is going to latch onto and find memorable or interesting.

[00:17:57] Andy Graham: And I think that there's lots of ideas that I think a lot of really, really important takeaways, I mean, as somebody who is looking at my business and kind of what I, what I've got now, if I was just getting started, I think I would feel that in fact, I think I remember feeling like I almost, I didn't have enough to talk about.

[00:18:16] Andy Graham: And overthinking the idea of producing lots of content or making it super interesting to look at. And I'm sure we'll get onto this and there are tips and tricks and techniques to make better use of the algorithms and the platforms. But do you think to just literally picking up the camera and just recording what you're doing on a day to day basis, can it be as simple as that?

[00:18:34] Andy Graham: I mean, I think like the more I've done, the easier I found it because I'm really happy just to pick up the phone and record a quick story about a problem that I'm dealing with on my desk right now. Whereas when I started, I was worried about it being really polished. And do I need someone to come with a camera and film this?

[00:18:51] Andy Graham: And do I need everything to be perfect? And all the lighting, is it okay? Just, can we just pick up. The camera, can we just write what we're thinking and just share what's happening in the moment? And is that actually a better approach to getting our personality and sort of getting this sort of bringing people along with us on this journey?

[00:19:08] Milly Bellotti: Yeah, that point about the equipment is so important. Like I have always used just my iPhone and I always recommend just use the phone you have. You do not need some professional camera with light, equipment, lighting. You don't need anything. You just need your phone. That's all you need. And yeah, absolutely.

[00:19:24] Milly Bellotti: You can just put it aside and show what you're up to. I think it probably lends itself a little bit better to stories than maybe to grids when you're posting sort of maybe, what you're up to in the moment. Um, whereas I like to say stories is behind the scenes, your life looks like, you know, peek behind the curtain.

[00:19:39] Milly Bellotti: That's what I think stories is for. Whereas I think stuff that you put on the grid should maybe be a little bit more thought out, thinking, okay, well, what's the narrative? What am I trying to say? What am I trying to do here? Not to put people off because absolutely lowest barrier to entry possible is what I want people to people to just post, just do it.

[00:19:55] Milly Bellotti: But if you're thinking about like, why are people, what's the difference between stories and the grid? That's the difference. Stories are behind the scenes. Let's see what's going on in your life. That cup of coffee you have in the morning, that run you've done. Whereas on the grid, you might be like, Oh, here's what's going on with this project. Let me show you a quick tool like that is different to a bit or a rub this one.

[00:20:13] Andy Graham: That's a really good analogy. And then Milly, am I right in thinking then that stories when we're sharing that sort of peek behind the curtain, that's typically going more so to the audience that we've already curated, the followers that we already have, as opposed to reaching a new audience, which I guess there's two different top objectives here as well.

[00:20:32] Andy Graham: Well, there's many objectives in social media, but I think kind of making it really, really simple. Is that a good way of thinking about, particularly with Instagram, how maybe the grid versus the stories tends to work?

[00:20:42] Milly Bellotti: Yeah, absolutely. Because if you think about stories, you can only see someone's story if you're following them.

[00:20:46] Milly Bellotti: As in, it appears, you know, the little bubbles at the top only appear if you follow that person. Of course, you can go click onto their profile, find them, and then look at their stories, but no one does that, obviously. They just see what's on the top of their Instagram, right, and that people you follow. So, probably like 99 percent of the time, anyone who's watching your stories is someone who follows you.

[00:21:03] Milly Bellotti: So, that is about deepening connections with people who are already part of your audience. And something I hear a lot, which really annoys me, is that, oh, but I only have 100 followers. And it's like, 100 followers? It's like filling out like a theater. Like, imagine you were doing a tour in front of, like, a theatre full of people.

[00:21:18] Milly Bellotti: What a great deal. And people think they need thousands and thousands of followers before they can get anywhere. It's like, actually, You only need like maybe one or two people at the beginning to invest in you in order for you to like grow your business, right? So stop thinking about like, right, I need the thousands.

[00:21:32] Milly Bellotti: I need all of these people to be watching. It's like, you only need a few people. You just need to convert them. So instead of worrying about like, let me get all these new followers, think how can I convince, speak to, or engage people who already follow me, even if it's only 50 people. Because I'm still in a load of people.

[00:21:49] Andy Graham: It really is. And it's so true. And I'm just thinking, I'm nodding along thinking about so many examples of people who have reached out to me. And I want to talk about lurkers a little bit more actually in today's episode. But, and I've said this so many times to sort of my mentees, to people in our community, to my business partners, you just never know who is actually watching, but I want to come back around to a lot of this technical stuff.

[00:22:10] Andy Graham: There's so much stuff here that I want to kind of dig into. But before we do, let's just zoom back out a little bit. Investment is obviously a high priority for a lot of people in our industry. Very capital intensive model, but social media and leveraging our personal brand, that it opens itself up to many more opportunities and possibilities than just raising private finance. Doesn't it?

[00:22:31] Milly Bellotti: Yeah, I mean, my favorite thing in life is to get messages from like clients who've done my program. They're like, Oh my God, Milly, this thing just happened. Isn't that crazy? Would never have happened if I hadn't have started my social media. Thank you. And that is, ah, just fills me with joy. One of my clients has been asked to speak in parliament about what she does with property.

[00:22:48] Milly Bellotti: I've had clients who end up speaking across the country, speaking on behalf of landlords on the news, speaking on podcasts. There are so many opportunities that can come out of it that aren't just angel investment. And you've got to think about as well the people you might meet as a result of it who might further you in your business, maybe not necessarily from an angel perspective, but maybe they are a member of your power team, or they introduce you to someone who, you know, takes you to another thing.

[00:23:13] Milly Bellotti: You never know where it can lead. It's beautiful. Like the opportunities that can come from social media can be so diverse and so interesting that a year later you could be in a position that you would never have dreamed of simply because of who might be following, who might be watching.

[00:23:26] Andy Graham: So, so true. Before we hit record, I shared one or two stories with you, didn't I? I have been knocking around on social media, so from a networking perspective for well over 10 years, Facebook used to be sort of the real hunting ground before Instagram came along and I do a lot on both and some of the channels as well, but they're the platforms that I tend to do most of our community is predominantly on Facebook as well.

[00:23:50] Andy Graham: But I found over the years that just friendships where I found support and guidance and censorship and motivation, inspiration, all that stuff. That's absolutely been there. I found opportunities and deals actually to buy things and even to sell things. I sold a business last year. The person I sold that business to was ultimately a contact that I made through social media once upon a time ago.

[00:24:15] Andy Graham: I have raised so much money through various people. People that I had no idea were out there looking and watching and not just people who have 50,000 or 100,000, I'm talking people who have millions of pounds, people who have sold tech businesses, but you wouldn't necessarily know about, but recently I got introduced to somebody who has a very, very substantial facility for private finance.

[00:24:41] Andy Graham: And some sort of semi institutional. And the person who made that introduction for me was someone from social media. He used to follow me when I was setting up one of my early businesses, invested in one of my early businesses, became a good friend, contact. I reached out just with a question not too long ago, introduced me to somebody else, and that has turned into sort of a potential to do a first loan.

[00:25:02] Andy Graham: Of multi seven figures, it's staggering and all from social media. And I think that you really have to buy in to the idea that not everything piss off this plant, this tree is not necessarily going to bear all the fruits that it will immediately. You've got to put some work, you got to water it, and you've got to give it time as well.

[00:25:21] Andy Graham: I think when I was younger, I was impatient and I wanted things fast. And if I wasn't getting results, I would change it quickly. And maybe if the conversation didn't go well, or it fell through with a potential investor, it would frustrate me. Whereas now I'm so open to the idea that it might not be.

[00:25:36] Andy Graham: Right now for either us or for anybody and nothing may happen with all this work I'm doing on social media, but actually in a year or two years or five years or 10 years when I still very much intend to be doing all of this, it will all pay dividend the fruit it'll start to come. Do you think that that is due? Do you think that it is important to have that kind of approach to what we're doing in social media as well?

[00:25:56] Milly Bellotti: Yeah, I really do. Because I think there are some people who reach me and say, right, I need finance for this deal. So let's do the social media program so that I can finance this deal that I need money for in 28 days.

[00:26:05] Milly Bellotti: And I'm like, okay, it might happen. You know, that's not the approach with social media. It's long term. You, like the property, don't approach it being like, I'm getting rich quick. I'm going to be a millionaire overnight because that won't happen. But if you think about it long term and the benefits that will happen to you long term, then it will.

[00:26:20] Milly Bellotti: I do have people who, like, halfway through the program are telling me, oh my god, I've had a DM from the exact target audience that we worked on in session one. And I love that, but that doesn't happen all the time. But it can, it absolutely can. But don't think about it as, Like it needs to give me results right now or else.

[00:26:38] Andy Graham: Okay. I want to get back into some of the technical detail then. So I'm putting myself back into the shoes of someone who wants to kind of maybe start leveraging social media to kind of help build my business. We've talked about a number of things that we could possibly do, but for those people right at the very beginning, We've talked about maybe methods for overcoming that anxiety, just sort of simplifying things, but can we talk about some of the specifics and how they can actually maybe find a solution to post something that they're comfortable with, finding something from maybe what is a limited amount of activity that they've actually got?

[00:27:09] Andy Graham: And maybe they're in that early stages and they're just out there looking for deals and things like that. Is there any advice, milly, that you would share as to how someone could actually get started and maybe build a plan of action that they're comfortable with and could even grow into? And just to add to that, I think one of the things that I've seen time and time again, is people come in to social media and be very, very, very loud.

[00:27:31] Andy Graham: And it might just be my personality, but to me, I find it quite repelling. What I really like and what I tend to find myself drawn to. Is people who appear much more endearing people who appear almost much more genuine. So I don't know whether there's something in there and maybe it's just personality types, how it's comes out or how it's received as well. That might maybe shapes some of this advice that you give people.

[00:27:55] Milly Bellotti: Yeah, I mean, I think what you're saying there is about is exactly what we were talking about earlier about you attract your people to you, right? So those people would never attract you because of their style, but they probably are attracting some people just a different type of you.

[00:28:08] Andy Graham: I think you're right. I think they do. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:28:09] Milly Bellotti: Fine. But in terms of where you get started, the first thing I would say is don't do what majority people do, please. Which is set up a new Instagram account with your limited company. Don't do that because you have an audience already. Most people have an Instagram, right?

[00:28:23] Milly Bellotti: It's a personal one with maybe 300, 400 followers of friends and family. And they bunny pass that amazing little audience of people who would be perfect investors. And they start a new channel. And I'm like, what are you doing? What are you doing? They're there. So use your current audience that you have.

[00:28:39] Milly Bellotti: Please don't recall them. And so start there. And you know, at the beginning, yeah, you might not have a deal. So maybe you're not showing progress on a project, but the things you can talk about, what are you doing in your business? So show them your viewings you're going to show them the strategies you're researching, show them how you're setting up your limited company for the first time, how exciting it is.

[00:28:58] Milly Bellotti: Show them the community that you've just joined, your HMO community, show them the fact that you're part of that and that you're doing weekly calls and that you're learning, show them all the things around that are not just the deal, because the deal is such a small part of it, there is so much property that is not just getting the keys, don't just wait for the first set of keys to post a picture, there are so many other things you can do.

[00:29:19] Milly Bellotti: And I think one of the things that people struggle with sometimes is the video thing, picking up the camera and taking a video. So if you're worried about that, start small. Start with stories because stories die after 24 hours, so it's less scary. And start with images first because images are less scary than picking up a camera and speaking about, I don't know what I'm saying.

[00:29:38] Milly Bellotti: So start with stories, they die. Then start with images because they're less scary than video. And then do video, but make it short. So like work yourself up. To like picking up the phone and just speaking, like you said, it comes later, right? Then that natural feeling, everything is easier the more you do it.

[00:29:56] Milly Bellotti: So just practice makes perfect and start with smaller steps and lower your barrier to entry.

[00:30:01] Andy Graham: I think that it's really, really good advice. And what about the consistency piece or maybe more so the regularity piece, Millie? Because I think When I'm working with a lot of people and maybe got a job, for example, busy life, family.

[00:30:13] Andy Graham: They're also doing this property thing on the side. And then we start to talk about social media and there's another body of work there to do that in itself, the idea, even if we can get over the anxieties of it and on almost getting to a point where we believe enough in the idea to do it and prioritize it, just finding the time can be a bit of a, sort of a daunting prospect.

[00:30:31] Andy Graham: What advice would you share in terms of regularity? And maybe again, it's something that you have to kind of just build up and work on.

[00:30:38] Milly Bellotti: I think the algorithm has had a massive shift recently, and it's interesting because the algorithm changes every day. Everyone thinks, oh, they've done a new update, it's a big algorithm, it changes every single day because it's an ever moving beast.

[00:30:51] Milly Bellotti: But it has had a significant shift recently, and they said that they're much more focused on quality versus quantity. And I don't know if you've noticed this, but posts these days are living longer. Previously, they maybe had an activity of 12 hours where people were engaging and commenting. Now, something you might post today in three days time suddenly gets an uplift because they're testing the audio.

[00:31:13] Milly Bellotti: They're deciding who should see it. So the algorithm will change all the time. So don't worry about the algorithm. Just ignore that that exists. It exists. That's the end of it. But in terms of how often, I would say quality over quantity. And if you're struggling with, oh, I don't have time, allocate some time once a week, maybe for an hour, sit down on Sunday and think, what should I post about this week?

[00:31:33] Milly Bellotti: What would be interesting from the week that's just passed? What can I say about what's happened? What's what's going on in the business? What's going on in my personal life? Because remember people who follow you, are also friends and family and acquaintances. They care about you. So you can talk about that holiday when you write on that thing you did because they like you and they want to see more about you.

[00:31:51] Milly Bellotti: Don't just speak about the business. That can be boring to people who aren't in property, right? Um, so make sure that you're interspersing that property stuff with personal things that they aren't because they aren't people who know you.

[00:32:04] Andy Graham: Interestingly, the personal stuff and I do exactly the same and drives Gemma mad, but we have a bit of fun with it.

[00:32:09] Andy Graham: And, and I find actually that sometimes I'll post something, it's just me and Gemma out or something else. And it gets a huge reach. And then actually I tend to, when I catch up with people, they kind of know maybe what we were up to at the weekend. And it looks like you had a lovely weekend. And I find people find so much.

[00:32:26] Andy Graham: To relate to in, in those sort of small snippets that actually really helps build relationships and helps you bond with your audience. And last week I was at an event, met a lot of people and I don't do a huge amount of physical networking, but occasionally when I do, it is nice. And I met with so many people and it really staggered me.

[00:32:45] Andy Graham: And it's probably a year since I've done anything like that really staggered me, how many people asked about Gemma and asked about Hugo. And I think I posted. Something about them occasionally, but 99 percent of the time, to me, it feels like property, but it's amazing. And what I think is even more amazing is that's what they ask about.

[00:33:01] Andy Graham: That's the bit that they find relatable to kind of start a conversation with. So I think that that's really, really, really good advice. And I think that that's, that's even less daunting than trying to talk about property when you are a little bit nervous about it, isn't it?

[00:33:14] Milly Bellotti: Exactly. And especially if, say you are new to it and all you've posted on, most people on Instagram they post their holiday pictures, right?

[00:33:20] Milly Bellotti: So say that's what you've done in the past and you go immediately to like super branded property stuff. That's a bit of a shock to the audience who's like, what's going on here? You're actually easing into it by still sharing personal stuff and then sharing property will make them ease into that journey that you're on as well.

[00:33:35] Milly Bellotti: So it just makes more sense. And on that point about people asking, well, Gemma and stuff, the first question I get when I go to a networking event, where's Bruce? Where's my dog? They're obsessed with my dog. And they're always asking why he's not at networking events. He does go to a lot of networking events, to be fair.

[00:33:50] Milly Bellotti: It’s like, let people care about those little things in your life. And they laugh about the like, the little moments, like one of my clients posted about she accidentally dropped a bottle of paint in her car and she put it on her stories. And she posts about loads of other property things, but that was the one she got like 50 DMs.

[00:34:06] Milly Bellotti: Oh my god, that's, that's very, very sorry.

[00:34:09] Andy Graham: I know the exact person and the exact post you're talking about, and I felt so bad for her.

[00:34:14] Milly Bellotti: Well it's not who you think it is actually. Oh, is it not? Until, yeah, this has happened to two people I know.

[00:34:18] Andy Graham: Oh I literally just saw this the other day. But I was like, do you know what, I found it funny, but also I felt sorry for them.

[00:34:24] Andy Graham: But because it's happened to me before, and I know how annoying it is.

[00:34:28] Milly Bellotti: And if it hasn't to you, you think, Oh my God, what would I do if that happened in my car?

[00:34:33] Milly Bellotti: These little silly things that you should really talk about these little anecdotes and things. And you know, Ava Lily and Kelly, she whispered about, she has a whole highlight about her husband who does not shut things.

[00:34:44] Milly Bellotti: He won't shut the cupboard door. Like all these little tiny annoying things that he won't shut. She's like shamed him with a whole highlight about it. But people find it hilarious because it's relatable to your own family.

[00:34:54] Andy Graham: Yeah, Milly, I think we've shared some really good advice for people just getting started and I know that that's a good portion of our listeners, but a lot of our listeners are also building quite established businesses and growing things out. They're already doing social media. So can we talk a little bit about maybe some, I'm not sure whether this is even the right way to phrase it, but some more advanced techniques or maybe for the people who already quite confident with it and have already kind of built the time to do it and already prioritise it quite highly.

[00:35:19] Andy Graham: Absolutely. Absolutely. Is there a good framework in terms of maybe regularity, balance between the type of professional stuff, maybe more personal stuff, what channels we should be doing or how many channels we should simultaneously be managing, and also how engaging with our audience actually is. I've found this more and more and more, but actually going back and engaging with my audience on comments and on like messages that I get has really seems to enhance the reach of anything organic.

[00:35:46] Andy Graham: What sort of advice can we talk about and share for people who are maybe a bit further down the line and looking to maybe kind of really enhance something that they're already doing?

[00:35:54] Milly Bellotti: I do think the engagement piece is a really interesting one. Basically what Instagram likes, and when I say Instagram, I do mean in general social media platforms, they really like you to be an active community member.

[00:36:04] Milly Bellotti: It's a big tick in their book. So if you're commenting on other people's posts, replying to people on your post, you are seen as a active community member and they will therefore share your post for more people. So one tip I always say is before posting, maybe 10, 15 minutes before posting, be a community member, comment on other people's posts, add value, give tips here and there.

[00:36:25] Milly Bellotti: Like if you see a post from someone being like, Oh, I don't know what to do with this. What do you think? Give that expert advice you have, do the engagement piece. Because then when you post, Instagram will reward you and share it with more people. Don't do the whole posting and running thing where you're just like, Oh, I've got two minutes between like a school run.

[00:36:41] Milly Bellotti: Let me just get this post out there and leave. Because Instagram is not going to reward you for that. Because in their books, that's you being a bad community member. So engagement is important. I mean, there's another thousand and one tips about what you can do to like grow their audience and things like that.

[00:36:56] Milly Bellotti: In terms of platforms, it really is all about your target audience. So if you haven't already, really think about who is my audience and where do they live? Because my clients who tend to be older, maybe have kids, Facebook tends to be a much bigger platform for them. That's where they're finding their audience.

[00:37:13] Milly Bellotti: That's where their audience lives. People who are millennial and younger, probably just under millennials, I would say Instagram is more the channel, obviously TikTok if you are quite a lot younger. So it really does depend. And LinkedIn. So what am I trying? who's done the best on LinkedIn. It's because of the network she was already part of.

[00:37:32] Milly Bellotti: So she was the head of a lettings agency before doing property full time. And so because of that, she had a lot of high level clients and people she'd worked with in the property space and the letting side of things. So they were already part of her network. So LinkedIn was huge for her because she had all these really C suite level, Executives there.

[00:37:53] Milly Bellotti: So for her LinkedIn is where she's raised the most about finance, not Instagram. So it really depends on your audience. So think who's my target audience, where do they live? And then use those platforms.

[00:38:03] Andy Graham: That's a great piece of advice. And actually it's brought to mind a good example. I won't share any names, but somebody I know quite well built an incredible audience on TikTok in the pandemic called the wave of something, and it just went absolutely bananas and millions and millions of views, many hundreds of thousands of followers.

[00:38:21] Andy Graham: And actually their initial objective was to maybe find people who could potentially invest in them and the types of projects. And I remember speaking to them and I remember them saying, we've got this huge audience and actually they, it's almost voracious. They just need so much. And we've got to like, just keeping up is hard, but actually none of them are really the type of person that we want because they're actually be sort of between the ages of 16 and 24.

[00:38:44] Andy Graham: And what the type of content that we were producing has spoken to people who want to learn themselves. So actually while they had a huge audience. Yeah. That may have suited other purposes. It didn't in any way actually serve their objective and they had to do a lot of work to then try to get that audience onto different channels and then change their messaging, which was really quite hard in the end.Very interesting.

[00:39:07] Milly Bellotti: That is really, really interesting. Because I've had that with a client come to me and they had a really large audience, but they weren't getting any results from social media. Anyone looking at their platform would be like, Oh, they're great. Why do they need your help? But the problem is they weren't converting anyone because they weren't talking to the right people.

[00:39:22] Milly Bellotti: So we did the exercise of who's the avatar, what's the messaging for that audience, not the audience you think it is. And actually, halfway through the program, they suddenly were getting DMs from their exact audience that we'd worked on, to the T. It was crazy. And it's because the messaging was targeted to them.

[00:39:39] Milly Bellotti: So you've really got to think, instead of just posting and being like, Oh, Especially, you know, you were mentioning people at the beginning versus people that are halfway. If you are like already on that route, really stop and think about like, who is your audience? What's your message? What am I trying to achieve here?

[00:39:53] Milly Bellotti: And is what I'm doing on social media, helping you achieve it? Think about the strategy. I mean, that's my background. It's, it's strategy that I did for those brands. Social media strategy. So for me, all whenever I speak to anyone that we always start the beginning, what is the strategy, not the tactics, not how many times a week, what's going on here that to me is so unimportant. If you don't have the foundation and a good strategy,

[00:40:15] Andy Graham: I think what we tend to find as well as I'm I'm regularly on social media and I see a lot of people regularly. I see people who do what we're talking about. They are posting regularly posting good balance of content. I bought into them and their story and their journeys.

[00:40:26] Andy Graham: And then we typically will reach out to you. Oh, we would love to feature your project. Can we do a case study on it? Or could we get you on the podcast? We'd love to share, you know, and talk about your story and your journey. And from my own experience, that sort of thing happened to me when I was younger.

[00:40:39] Andy Graham: I remember the first day I got a message from Ant at YPN and that it was, it was a project I must've been doing 12, 15 years ago, something like that. And I posted some pictures on social media and add messages from YPN is like, could we do a feature? And I just remember how incredible I felt at that moment being asked to do a feature on my property in the magazine.

[00:40:57] Andy Graham: And of course I've done many over the years since, but actually it all started from this social media thing. And I think actually there's a number of levels to this, this as well, and getting asked to maybe get on stage one day, which. I know for a lot of people it's quite daunting and getting on stage doesn't have to be to sell anything, does it?

[00:41:14] Andy Graham: Getting on stage could just be to share an idea, to contribute. I hosted a panel Q&A with the CEO of the NRLA the other day and some other really incredible people, which I think is a great thing. It suits me really well because it's quite technical and it's not salesy in any way. I mean, you don't have to be a really good speaker, public speaker.

[00:41:32] Andy Graham: So I think if you can get these foundation layers. Right. It can turn into these other layers and you can reach bigger audiences and leverage other people's channels and platforms as well. Can't you? Absolutely.

[00:41:43] Milly Bellotti: Absolutely. I think it can lead to incredible opportunities.

[00:41:47] Andy Graham: Milly, I'm conscious of time, there's so much more that I want to ask you, but there's no way. And like you said, there's a thousand and one different things that we could do. So could we put like a really simple action plan together for people who are listening today and thinking, right, I've got to do what Milly's talking about here. Clearly this stuff really does work. For someone who's just sort of.

[00:42:04] Andy Graham: Not sure about what to actually do next though, and how to piece all this together and where to begin with that strategy. And I'm mindful that you're the sort of person that could actually help with them. Is there a bit of an action plan that they could put together to actually embark on this and help them maybe prioritise social media and enhancing their personal brand alongside what they're trying to do in property?

[00:42:25] Milly Bellotti: Yeah, I mean, you can DIY it, which is what, you know, with property, there's two avenues into property, right? There's either training. So whether that's mentorship, whether that's joining your community, there's many wonderful ways of training yourself, right? By using other people's knowledge, or there's what I call DIY, which is look at YouTube videos, you read books, and you just try and attempt it doing those things.

[00:42:44] Milly Bellotti: So with social media, it's the same. So you can either DIY it, look at what other people are doing, do the research, go on YouTube, look at videos, find out all sort of ways that you can do it. So you can go off and do it yourself or you can get the help. So you can do, for example, my program, which teaches you strategy one to one.

[00:43:03] Milly Bellotti: We go through everything. Like, that's why I call it A to Z of social media. And by the end of it, you have the strategy, you know exactly what you're doing, you know what your message is, and you go off knowing full well that what you're doing is the right thing. You were saying when you first started, you were like, I don't know if what I'm doing is right, but I'm just going to keep going.

[00:43:18] Milly Bellotti: And you were. And for some people, it does work out great that way. And for others, they get stuck. They get in their own head. They just need that help initially. Just think about which one you are. Do you want to DIY and go off and do it? If in which case go off and maybe do a bit of research, have a look at other property channels and see which ones like you really like and think why, why do I like this?

[00:43:38] Milly Bellotti: Like, what is it about this channel that I really enjoy? And try and not obviously copy, but think about, okay, they're doing those things and I like them because of it. So maybe I should be doing things like this because that's more me. So think about your personal brand and think about what you can bring to the table and what makes you different and just start posting.

[00:43:56] Milly Bellotti: And maybe one hour a week, have a think, don't just post a run, have a think. what would be a valuable thing for me to post this week. So allow time, schedule it in your diary. And then if you're stuck with any things, like for example, how to create a reel, whatever there are obviously YouTube videos that will teach you all of that stuff.

[00:44:12] Milly Bellotti: So you can DIY it. You absolutely can. Just like with property, you can DIY it, but you can also shortcut it by using other people's knowledge.

[00:44:19] Andy Graham: Yeah, I think that's really great advice just to add, just to build on it. And from personal experience, again, I think that's trying to reduce the overwhelm, um, by starting with a good plan, I think it's always the best way to do it.

[00:44:29] Andy Graham: And actually, I think the first step of this process is to understand just how powerful this can be. I think for a lot of people just getting to a point where they believe that what we're talking about is possible for them. And what I often say to people is just look around, look at how many people have grown audiences doing.

[00:44:46] Andy Graham: Exactly what you're doing now started doing exactly what you're doing now, or maybe even had less in terms of credibility or experience or from other industries or similar industries. So it is very much possible. And I think it's really important to get to that position where you have enough belief in it to say, right, I am actually going to prioritise a certain amount of time.

[00:45:04] Andy Graham: every day or week or month or whatever it might be to put towards this and then we'll test the results and see how we do. And then I think the second thing is, and this is a big piece, I've, I've done episodes specifically on this, but it is the consistency for me and from personal experience again, no matter what you start with, how little or how much, I think the consistency piece is so, so important.

[00:45:27] Andy Graham: Do it and please stick with it because it's, If you do something and only do it for a period of time, you just won't know, will you? It takes a certain amount of time to curate an audience and to actually build confidence and start to build personal brand. So that would just be my two pence worth. Millie, this has been a really, really fascinating conversation, one I've actually been looking forward to having for a long time.

[00:45:48] Andy Graham: I think we're going to try and twist your arm to come and do a case to a masterclass with us in the road back because I know there's so much more that we want to try and get from you. But look, for anyone who's listening, and I'm sure that that will be a lot of people today who's thinking, look, the DIY approach sounds like it's a lot of work and might take a lot of time.

[00:46:04] Andy Graham: And obviously it's a lot of trying. If anyone listening today would like to shortcut that and come and speak to you about how you might be able to help them, where's the best place for them.

[00:46:14] Milly Bellotti: Obviously social media, just add posting as in posting a letter, posting property, listing property on Instagram, and just send me a DM, tell me you've listened to the podcast and let's have a chat.

[00:46:24] Milly Bellotti: I often have little discovery chats with people to see whether it's the right fit. And I sometimes have a call with someone and I say, you know what, I think you've got this. Just go off and do it. Like, and I just give them the confidence that you just be like, I think you've got this, you can do it. And then other times I have chats with people and I think, actually, I think you're stuck here, let me help you. So I'm very happy to have that conversation.

[00:46:41] Andy Graham: I wish that when I was getting started and doing the social media stuff, I wish that I had these sorts of podcasts to listen to and people like yourself to speak to and follow and take advice from Milly because while I think I've done all right. I think it's important just for context to remind our listeners that it's taken me 15 years to get where I am now.

[00:47:01] Andy Graham: And I still don't feel like I'm anywhere near where I want to be. And I feel like I'm getting better at everything as I go and really sort of fine tuning things and working more and more with experts to sort of fill the gaps that I clearly am not able to do myself. But there's a lot of stuff that we can fast track.

[00:47:17] Andy Graham: And I think that this is absolutely one of those things. One investor, one contact, one opportunity can change the shape of everything, and it can happen so much quicker than people think. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show, Milly. Thank you for coming on and sharing all your expertise.

[00:47:35] Milly Bellotti: You're welcome. Thank you very much for having me.

[00:47:37] Andy Graham: And thank you once again, Milly, for coming on and sharing all of this wisdom with us.

[00:47:41] Milly Bellotti: Have a great day!

[00:47:49] Andy Graham: That is it for today's episode, guys. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm sure that you would agree that that was both an insightful and interesting episode, but also an incredibly inspiring episode and story that Milly just shared with us. Don't forget that if you do want to level things up, head on over to thehmoroadmap.co.uk.

[00:48:05] Andy Graham: We are, of course, multi award winners now. I say that very proudly. We won the best content provider of the year, so award at the HMO awards last month and also the highly commended award for best training and mentorship program. It's all there waiting for you inside the HMO roadmap. Over 400 resources to help you start, scale and systemise.

[00:48:25] Andy Graham: Go and see what all the fuss is about. If you have enjoyed today's episode, guys, can I ask you a huge favor? I know I ask you regularly, but you've got 30 seconds to leave a really quick review of the show. It will help us. It'll help continue to spread the message about all the great work that you guys out there in our community are doing.

[00:48:40] Andy Graham: And of course, it helps us continue to bring great guests just like Milly onto the show. That's it, guys. Thank you again. And don't forget that I'll be right back here in the very same place next week. So please join me then for another installment of the HMO podcast.