Will A Mentor Boost My Results (And How Do I Know If It's Right For Me)?

In this episode, we're going to be discussing mentorship in the property industry.

What is property mentorship? Could it help you boost your results? Or is the whole thing a big scam?

We’re going to answer these questions and find out what property mentorship is about and why there are so many out there offering property mentorship. 

Plus, we're going to talk about the pros and cons, to help you decide whether or not property mentorship is right for you or not. 

If you found yourself at a crossroads wondering whether or not you should get yourself a mentor, then this episode is one you want to stick around for.

If you want to join my 1-2-1 mentoring program, you can enquire here. 

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Transcript

Andy Graham (00:02.67)
Hey, I'm Andy and you're listening to the HMO Podcast. Over 10 years ago, I set myself the challenge of building my own property portfolio. And what began as a short -term investment plan soon became a long -term commitment to change the way young people live together. I've now built several successful businesses. I've raised millions of pounds of investment and I've managed thousands of tenants. Join me and some very special guests to discover the tips, tricks and hacks, the ups and the downs, the best practice and everything else you need to know to start, scale and systemise your very own HMO portfolio.

Andy Graham (00:40.654)
In today's episode, we're going to be discussing mentorship. What is property mentorship? Could it help you boost your results? Is the whole thing one great big scam. We're going to have that discussion today. We're going to find out what property mentorship really is about. We're going to find out why there are so many people and companies out there offering property mentorship. We're going to talk about whether or not property mentorship might be right for you or not. And we're going to find out what the pros and the cons of mentorship are. If you found yourself at a crossroads wondering whether or not you should get yourself a mentor, then today's episode is definitely one you want to stick around for. Please sit back, relax and enjoy today's episode of the HMO Podcast.

Hey guys, it's Andy here. We're going to be getting back to the podcast in just a moment, but before we do, I want to tell you very quickly about the HMO Roadmap. Now, if you're serious about replacing your income, or perhaps you've already got a HMO portfolio that you want to scale up, then the HMO Roadmap really is your one -stop shop. Inside the Roadmap, you'll find a full 60 lesson course delivered by me, teaching you how to find more deals, how to fund more deals and raise private finance, how to refurbish great properties, how to fill them with great tenants that stay for longer, and how to manage your properties and tenants for the future. We've also got guest workshops added every single month. We've got new videos added every single week about all sorts of topics. We've got downloadable resources, cheat sheets and swipe files to help you. We've got case studies from guests and community members who are doing incredible projects that you can learn from. And we've also built an application just for you that allows you to appraise and evaluate your deals, stack them side by side and track the key metrics that are most important to you. To find out more, head to theHMOroadmap.co.uk now and come and join our incredible community of HMO property investors.

Andy Graham (02:30.574)
Okay, welcome back. So today we're going to have a conversation about mentorship. Why is mentorship so popular in the property space? Could it actually help you? Will it actually help you get better results in less time? Or is the whole thing a great big scam? There's a lot of people out there offering mentorship programs. Well, the objective of today's episode is to try and give you a better idea, to give you more insight as to what mentorship is all about. And if you do decide to embark on a mentorship program, what you should be thinking, how you can make a more informed decision because in all honesty, there's a lot to think about. So I've got a lot to cover in today's episode, but before we dive in, can I take a moment to very quickly say a huge thank you to you guys, our listeners and our wider community and that give myself and my team a real pat on the back because on Friday we went along to the HMO awards. You might know that I was a judge. I was actually judging the residential to HMO category, which was incredible by the way, the standards of applicants was amazing. More on that later. I was also hosting an expert Q &A panel, we had a really interesting and exciting discussion about the future of HMOs in front of a packed audience, but we were also the HMO roadmap nominated for a couple of awards ourselves.

And to my great surprise, we were the really, really fortunate winners of best content provider. And we actually came runner up in the best mentor and training program award. I couldn't be more grateful. I couldn't be any more proud of our team and not just for our team, but of our community because you guys have had helped make the HMO roadmap what it is. We've got so much content from you guys, our community members, our partners. I know it's really, really good, but of course I'm biased, but to have it actually judged by somebody else and to have won against all of the competition that was in the category, we're so, so, so proud. We've been building it and working on it and continually improving the HMO roadmap for over three years. You could not begin to imagine how much work, time and effort has gone into it.

And it's just so lovely to have won this award and get that recognition. We're really proud. We're really, really grateful. So thank you. I just wanted to take a moment because very fresh and I'm still feeling absolutely brilliant about it. I just wanted to share that news with you.

So today's episode mentorship. I think that this is an important one and I want to talk to you about the pros and cons of it. I want to try and help you make a more informed decision about mentorship. Maybe it's right for you. Maybe it's not right for you.

Andy Graham (04:53.198)
A lot of it, as you're about to find out, will boil down to timing as well. And I think you've got to be really eyes wide open with this stuff because unfortunately there are some unscrupulous individuals and companies out there. And I'm going to try and help you navigate these treacherous waters when it comes to making these sorts of decisions. I can't remember which episode it was. I'd have to look back, but a while ago, well over a year ago, I did an episode about what was possibly one of the most important decisions.

Most valuable decisions turned out to be one of the most valuable decisions that I ever made since sort of leaving my job as a physio. And that decision was to join a mastermind program where I met some really interesting people and ultimately a guy, John Paul, who then became my mentor for seven or eight years. And we worked together very closely up until the kind of more or less the day I sold my investment and management agency last year.

A great guy, a great friend, actually saw John at the awards recently. He was a judge himself. He was also a speaker himself. And my decision to work with John really was a bit of a life changing decision actually. And if you haven't heard that episode, go back and have a listen to it. I can't remember which number it is, but it was such an important decision. And it really does feed into today's episode. And I wanted to say this before we kicked off today's episode. I personally highly, highly value the opportunity to work with a mentor.

I think it's really, really important. It wasn't something that actually I was that familiar with before I sort of moved into business before I started to hone my entrepreneurial spirit. But now I more so than ever, I think it's one of the most important things. And still now I have mentors and guides, people to help and advise me because I think it's that important. I'm always trying to take it to that next level. But I also understand that if you're perhaps just getting started, if you're fairly new and fresh to the property industry

coming out of maybe a corporate career or doing something quite different, it can be a bit in your face. There's a lot of people out there offering training and mentorship programs. This is a tricky business to master, you know, the property space. And as you're about to find out in today's episode, there is a lot of stuff that can help you. There's also a lot of stuff that can hinder you. And I think if you do decide or you're thinking about perhaps starting a mentorship program, working with somebody, it's a huge decision. It's so important. It really could shape.

Andy Graham (07:14.35)
the outcome of your business, sort of now in five years and 10 years and 20 years, it really can be that important. So I want to, I just want to make sure that you guys really understood that I highly value this myself, not just as a mentor, but as a mentee. For me, it's been one of the most important things in enabling me to achieve a lot of the successes that I have ultimately achieved. So what are you going to do in today's episode? What are we actually going to cover?

Well, quite a bit of stuff and I've actually taken some notes because I wanted to make sure that this was a really good and really, really valuable episode. Let's start with almost defining what mentorship is or what a mentor is. I think for me, property mentorship is about finding someone who is more experienced than you, someone who can guide and advise you through the industry, helping you make those decisions and ultimately helping you progress to achieve the goals that you have set or would like to set.

Sometimes people just getting started don't even know how to set goals properly. But ultimately there will be an objective. And the idea of working with a mentor is to find somebody who has the knowledge that they can transfer to you and the skills, someone who can perhaps impart their confidence and someone who might be able to let you tap into their network. And the objective really of that relationship is to help accelerate the process of getting those results. But there's a lot more to it and we are going to get into a lot of that detail.

So without further ado, let's get stuck into it. What are the benefits of property mentorship? Well, the first one, the real biggie, I think is accelerated learning. If you can find a mentor who has the experience and knowledge of doing what you would like to do, you could potentially learn from them in months what otherwise might take you years to figure out on your own.

They might be able to share insider tips and strategies, things that have worked for them, things that haven't worked for them. They may be able to point you at the right sort of information and content and resources, things that you might otherwise be sort of scrabbling around trying to find, doing a lot of trial and error. Now, ultimately that is what a lot of business is, but working with a mentor, the right mentor, means you can be...

Andy Graham (09:26.158)
A bit more streamlined with this. They can actually accelerate that process of learning. So you can devour a lot more information and knowledge, really skill yourself up much faster than you may be able to do independently. I think it's also worth saying, because I see this a lot. Yes, there's a lot of free information out there. The idea that you can get everything you need for free to achieve a similar outcome from a really good mentorship program in certainly in my opinion is nonsense.

You can't, okay. YouTube videos, even podcasts like this, they are often just scratching the surface. And of course it's still very, very subjective. A lot of it is quite subjective. There's a lot more objective measures that we need to be able to see and actually take action on. And when you're working with a mentor, you can really get into that. A lot of mentorship for me is about implementation. It's not just about learning or the transference of knowledge.

It's actually about then implementing that knowledge and a mentor can really help you do that. And that combination really will or can help accelerate that process. I wish, and I've said it before, that I had found a mentor. In fact, I wish that I knew that mentorship was a thing. And then I wish I had found a good mentor much earlier on in my property career, if you like. I think I got a mentor, I started working with JP in 2016, it started in 2009.

And I think had I had a mentor, I had been working with JP seven, eight years previous, I would have achieved double what I have by now. I think I placed that much value on it. So accelerated learning, I think that that's perhaps the most obvious one. You can probably achieve what you might otherwise do in years, in months with the right person. Now, one of the big things moving on that I think a lot of people overlook when they're thinking about mentorship is it can help you avoid mistakes now.

Yes, some of these might be mistakes that cost you some time but actually sometimes these can be mistakes that would otherwise cost you a lot of money now an obvious example is a good mentor would perhaps help advise you against buying something that was going to lose you money was going to be a bad deal But there's more to it than that. A good mentor can actually see where Certain losses might be hidden. So let me give you an example. I've saved some of my mentees quite literally

Andy Graham (11:49.806)
hundreds of thousands of pounds on stamp duty. Now, I haven't personally managed their stamp duty transactions, but I've been able to give them advice from my own experience and network that they've been able to take to an expert, my expert that I've referred them to, who's then saved them a huge amount of money. And actually that saving has been multiple, multiple, multiple times on many occasions more than the cost of their mentorship with me on an annual basis.

I mean, some of them, they could be working with me for 10 years and they would still be in the black because they've saved that much money. And that's just one example. Another really good example is helping someone plan a refurbishment. It's not well and good looking at the design and the, you know, the overall spec, but actually getting into the detail and having the experience to know whether or not a tender looks overpriced, whether those materials look more than they really need to be.

So I think a lot of working with a mentor is actually about avoiding mistakes as well. And there's a plethora of examples that I could give you, but there are so many pitfalls to investing in property. Some really common, some much less common, mentioned a couple already, but these are all the sorts of things that a good mentor can help you avoid. And when you're thinking about mentorship, it shouldn't just be about how much additional value you can get from mentorship.

Can you make the deals more profitable? Can you do more deals in a certain amount of time? But actually thinking about the stuff that's a bit more difficult to see, that's less transparent. How many mistakes might they be able to help you avoid making? How much money might they actually be able to save you as well? The third thing they're moving on for me is this is why I prefer, well, I don't prefer working in a group setting is quite different to working with a mentor. And the real difference for me is the personalized guidance.

When people contact me about my mentorship program, one of the first things that I tell them and talk to them about is how bespoke my program is. My mentorship program is not a scripted training program in any way, shape or form. It is very much about you as the individual. I will sit and listen to you talk about where you are currently, what's going on, what's good, what's bad, what are the challenges, what sort of resources do you have? Have you got time?

Andy Graham (14:08.078)
Money, have you got the knowledge? Perhaps you've got some limitations. They might be time, knowledge or money. And there's many, many more. And then we talk about the goals and objectives, where you want to be in a year, in three years, in five years and in 10 years. And with that, you can build a really, really bespoke plan. And we can look at where we are now and that allows us then to build that bridge. What does that roadmap between where we are now and where you want to be actually look like? And that is different for everybody. I've worked with people who are just getting started, perhaps they've just sold their business, got lots of capital, but don't know where to start in terms of picking a location, actually, how to appraise and analyse HMO deals, right through to people who've got really established portfolios or agencies, but they're struggling, they're getting bogged down, they want to downsize it a bit, they want to streamline things, they want to build more systems and operations. And as you might imagine, the mentorship and what we actually do and how we spend our time together and the actions that we take and the results that we measure are completely different.

And everyone sort of sits in between there or even outside as well. So every person that I work with has a completely unique and bespoke plan. And for me, mentorship is all about that personalised guidance. Mentorship shouldn't be a group exercise. It shouldn't be about what works for somebody else. It should be really listening to you and your objectives and where you are now and working with the challenges and the advantages that you have got. Everybody's scenario is a little bit different.

The fourth thing is accountability. I think this is a real big, a lot of people talk about this in the industry. A mentor can help keep you accountable to the goals that you set and not just those of achieving those goals, but actually achieving them within a certain timeline, helping you stay on track with your plans. With my mentees, I really break it down. We catch up every couple of weeks. So we work in bite -sized amounts at the end of every session. We have actions that we agree that you're going to go away and implement.

And then we come back and we see how we're doing. We measure the performance and gradually over time, we add more and more to that. So the idea is that it's not overwhelming. There's not lots and lots of stuff to do initially. It's not holding you to account on every single thing that can be done and should be done. It's also about combining accountability with a sensible bespoke program that can be delivered realistically over a period of time. And a good mentor should be able to both walk you through that plan

Andy Graham (16:25.838)
and help you implement and take action at the right times and then hold you to account as and when things need to be done. Some things need to be done again and again and again and again and again and forever. Some things just need to be done once and that's it. So it gets quite complicated, but a good mentor should really be able to help break this down. But I think accountability is so important because a lot of us are busy. We've got families, we've got busy jobs and actually just building property business, there are so many moving parts, right?

We've got to find deals, we've got to stack deals, we've got to do viewings, we've got to plan refurb, meet builders, we've got to buy materials, we've got to do all the conveyancing and all the legal work, and we've got to speak to mortgage brokers. There's so much admin to do, then we've got to manage the properties, we've got to talk to tenants, maybe we want to think about building systems and operations and staff and it goes on and on and on. So no doubt people do feel a bit overwhelmed and that overwhelmed...

alongside everything else in life can just be a little bit too much, but somebody there just to hold you to account can really help just keep things moving, just keep progressing, just keep taking that one foot in front of the other. So I think that accountability with a mentor is really, really, really important. But also I think that's why having that sort of a relationship, having a relationship where you have that sort of respect, where you turn up and you want to do.

Whatever you've been asked to do and agreed to do because you just don't want to let your mentor down. That is how I felt working with JP. If I hadn't done something, I was embarrassed. Okay. I felt bad about it. John was disappointed in me. You know, my mom and dad's disappointed in you. They're not even angry. They're just disappointed. That is how your relationship should be with a mentor. You should also have the sort of relationship where you can talk openly and honestly so that the timelines to do certain things are realistic. Your mentor should know that you've got stuff on.

You've got a holiday coming up and that's fine. You guys together can make those agreements. But when you say you're going to do it, you do it. And a good mentor should be there to hold you to account. The next point, the fifth point is I think perhaps the single most important thing. And I learned this one from experience. I've talked about this a number of times on the show. And when I have often referred back and talked about some of the most successful mentees I've had in guests on the show, this word always comes up. Can you guess what it is?

Andy Graham (18:40.078)
It's focus. Mentors can help you focus on the most important tasks and strategies, okay, can help you avoid the distractions that can ultimately derail your business and derail your progress. When I was just getting started, when I was a younger man in my early twenties, my real objective was more so just to make money as fast as possible so I could get as far away from my professional career as a physio as I possibly could. As I've got a little bit older, that's changed. Actually, I've now learned that the best results come from focusing my efforts, mastering something before moving on. Best example I can give you from my own personal journey is that I waited 15 years before I moved into large developments, commercial to residential projects where I was doing multi -million pound developments. Had I tried to do those sorts of projects when I was just getting started, you might imagine where I would be now, which is absolutely nowhere. I'd be back in the clinic as a physio, wouldn't I?

probably hating life. When you're just getting started or when you're not sure about how to take the next steps, it's very easy to get distracted by the next big idea. There's so many ideas being shared on social media, right? We go network and we talk to people who are doing really cool things. Look, I do it myself. I talked to somebody the other day and they were talking to me about their social housing strategy. And I'm thinking, my God, this sounds absolutely incredible. Why have I got student tenants and professional tenants? This just sounds like the way to do it. And then Andy look

It is great strategy. It's working for someone, but it's not your thing. Okay. This is your thing. This is what we've talked about. This is what we've planned and you have to really, really practice it. And even now as an entrepreneur of nearly 20 years, I still have to practice this behavior, but focus is so important. I didn't start building my training and education business until I'd been doing the HMO stuff for well over 10 years. By that point, I had an established portfolio. I had an agency and a management. I did all of these things systematically my property career, mastered one before moving on to the next. And by the way, when I say mastered one, it was up and it was running and it was built to a point where I had achieved the objective and I was ready to then move on. And if I wanted to, I could continue doing it with staff and with the systems and processes in place. A good mentor should help keep you focused. I'm really, really black and white as a mentor. For some people, that's great. For some people, they don't like it. Some people like the soft touch. I'm not the guy with a soft touch. I tell that to everybody. I'm the black and white guy.

Andy Graham (21:04.174)
This is how JP was with me, but I'm the black and white guy. And I will tell you, I will pull you up. I will pull one of my mentees up when that's, they're not pulling their weight when they are being distracted, when they're bringing things to the table that actually just don't fit with the objectives and the goals that we set. Now, if the objectives and the goals have changed, let's talk about it. And then we can perhaps justify taking different actions. That's fine. It's nothing wrong with changing the goals and objectives, but you have to do that first without first going off down the wrong path.

People start with HMOs, then all of a sudden doing a bit of essay and then doing a little bit of rent to rent and then trying to do the first commercial to resi projects and so on and so forth. You get the idea. A good mentor should help keep you really, really, really, really focused. Moving on. The next one then is encouragement and motivation. My God, investing in property is tough, right? Even now it is so difficult at times and God.

If it wasn't for my business partners, sometimes I just wouldn't want to get out of bed some days. It's really difficult, really slow. Banks driving you mad, tenants driving you mad, issues with suppliers, utility companies, everything and everybody just really, really, really frustrating you. And seemingly sometimes you're just not making any progress at all. But all you need often is a good chat with your mate or your mentor who just lifts your spirits, who encourages you and motivates you and just reminds you that this is what it's all about. Get up, let's do it again. Stop moaning, stop bitching, okay? If it was easy, everybody would do it. And I get that real buzz. I sit down with someone. This is why I love talking about property because I just bounce off people and I get that excitement. I get motivated and encouraged just by talking to people about what they're doing, what they're achieving. It makes me want to go away and do more.

If you feel like that, when you speak to somebody about property, if you listen to podcasts like this and it inspires you and it gets you excited and motivated and makes you want to go out and do more, then it's probably a good indication that you would find it valuable to work with a mentor. Cause that's definitely something that you should get. Benefits of association. I think this is a really good one. I think it's an important one, but I think it's one that you have to be very, very careful with. So when I worked with JP, as well as being

Andy Graham (23:10.734)
totally confident that JP was the right guy for me. We were a good fit. It was black and white. He was definitely going to hold me to account. I think just on a personal level, we really clicked, had a huge amount of respect. There was a lot of mutual respect as well. All that stuff was there and that was good and that was pretty obvious. But also I wanted to be associated with working alongside JP. JP at the time was on the board of Arlo, he still is. He was running a big agency. He had a lot of contacts. He had a lot of respect in the industry.

And that for me was really, really important. And at the time I didn't quite understand how important that might be, but I can tell you even years on, I mean, I've been at the awards last week, JP was there chatting and he has so much integrity and the fact that our relationship is what it is now that has rubbed off on other people towards me and over the years. And I think people have seen me working. In fact, I'll give you a good example. When I sat at my investment management agency, we did a big equity raise

We took the business onto a platform, Europe's biggest crowdfunding platform. We sold some equity at a value of about 1 .2 million for the business. It had never, ever been done in our industry before. So this was totally unique. And this was well before crowdfunding, property deals was even a thing. So this, we were really ahead of the curve with this. It was a real unknown. And I remember getting a message one day from somebody in our industry, one of the most influential people, owns a huge, huge company, had a huge amount of success widely known, how widely respected, well -respected with a massive black book of contacts and said, love what you're doing.

See you're working with JP and I've invested in the company. And I think had it not been for working with JP, that decision may have been different. Now I'm not saying this is why you should decide to work with a mentor. It's certainly not the only, the reason you would choose to pick who you work with, but I think it is important. And along the same vein, and we're going to talk about this and some of the drawbacks, but when you are choosing who you're going to work with, you really do want to think about this, about their reputation. Are they the right person to be associated with it? Are they doing, or do they have the sort of reputation and respect in the industry that you want? There's a lot of people out there that work with some people. I kind of wonder why you would choose to work with somebody like that. There are some inscrupulous people about that. I don't really like to talk about this stuff on the show. It's not really what the show is about. Focus on us and our thing and the right way to do stuff, but...

Andy Graham (25:36.654)
There are people doing it the wrong way out there. There's people who have lost people money. There's people who's damaged their reputation, who've lost a lot of credibility, lost other people credibility. And yet a lot of people sign up to their free training courses and then go on to do mentorship packages with them. And I don't think it's because they do the due diligence. They see lots of followers and social media and so on and so forth. For me, it's all about the results and the integrity and the respect in the industry. What do their peers say about them? What sort of credentials have they actually got? Have they won any awards, have they been independently judged on their performance in their own businesses? These are the sorts of things you should absolutely be thinking about. And if you work with the right person, there will be some benefit of association.

Finally, then network expansion or contacts. When people come and join my mentorship program, I open up my book of contacts to them, my most valued contacts in the industry. And there are so many now, as you might well imagine, to help them do what they need to do. And that can avoid a lot of time spent researching, having conversations, getting multiple quotes, actually making a decision, work with them, finding out that it's wrong. If I can give them the right person and teed up for them, it can save them so much time, give them all of that confidence. I can often put them in front of the person or a type of person that's done this many, many times before, whatever it might be. Good example, my planning consultant specialises in HMOs.

He specialises in challenging councils that have got sort of quite restrictive Article Four directions and is very, very successful in getting planning applications through an Article Four directions or overturning them or winning them at appeal. Okay. Without that sort of a contact, you might go through dozens of people and spend thousands of pounds and quite literally waste years. Now I'm not saying that everybody I've got in my black book is a silver bullet. Of course not, but...

It really does help, doesn't it? If someone's got a load of contacts that you can just take advantage of. And I think when you're working with a mentor, this is absolutely something that you would hope to benefit from. Okay. Now we've talked about the positives, the reasons why we might choose to work with a mentor. Let's look at some of the drawbacks or some of the other considerations. I think one of the first ones and the big ones is cost. Look, investing in property is a very capital intensive

Andy Graham (27:57.582)
model, it just sucks up all of our money, doesn't it? Everything's really, really expensive when we're buying property and mentorship, understandably, is no different. Now, when you're paying for a mentor, when you're paying for mentorship services, you are not, generally speaking, paying for time. You're paying for experience. You're paying for knowledge that can be imparted. And some of that, in my case, that's nearly 20 years of knowledge and experience in the HMO industry. And what you'll find is mentors have usually achieved a certain degree of success.

They probably have a certain amount of income coming in through their portfolios and other businesses, and they have the demand from a certain number of people for their service and only so much time and ability to provide and offer that service. And that is generally speaking, how the price is going to be set. Now, like most things in life, you get what you pay for. Now, it's difficult to know exactly what you're getting in this space. And I think that that's important. We're going to move on to due diligence, but...

You need to be careful and you need to be aware. You do generally get what you pay for. If you don't want to pay much for mentorship, you're not likely to get somebody with that much experience. Now that might be okay. You might be happy to work with someone who just has a little bit more experience than you for a period of time. You have got to make that decision independently. But, and I'm not here to try and justify anybody's costs whatsoever, but what you need to understand is there is going to be a cost for it. Now, the way that I would think about this and the way that I thought about this myself was,

When I was looking at working with a mentor, first of all, can I physically afford it? Can I take money from somewhere, cashflow from this business or from that portfolio, from that project, or can I borrow it? And can I physically afford to deliver on that financial commitment for a mentorship program? Okay, that's the first thing you need to understand. If you can't, definitely not the right time. You need to physically have the money, okay? The second thing then is can you justify what that is likely to cost? So let me give you a good example.

If a mentorship program was a thousand pounds a month, what would you need to do to make that worth your while? Economically speaking, and this is just purely focusing on the pure economics of it at the minute. Well, let's say over a six month period, that would cost you 6,000 pounds. Would you, working with this particular individual, be able to, in combination, either save or create an extra 6,000 pounds? If you can, you're at break even. Could you do that?

Andy Graham (30:21.262)
in six months. Now, what I can tell you is that unless you're an absolute expert in refurbishments or maybe negotiation, how to stack deals, I could probably save you many times that over just in one deal. Now it's not a guarantee and it's not the case for everybody, but there's a good chance, there's a good likelihood. That's one way of looking at it. Another way is if you had a rent -to -rent business, if you had a mentor that, by the way, my price is not a thousand pounds, I'm just using round figures for a number, but...

If you run rent to rent business, if it was costing a thousand pound a month, you did it for six months, 6,000 pounds. If you did one extra rent to rent deal that made you a thousand pounds, remember my rough target for any rent to rent deal is 200 pound net cash flow per month per room. So two, four, six, eight, 10, that's a thousand pound on a five bed HMO. If you did one extra deal, just working with that mentor who's costing you a thousand pounds, would it be worthwhile?

Well, obviously you're in the black within six months. And if you've done that deal on, let's say a three or a five or 10 year lease, you've then got that income for many, many, many more years to come. So of course, so I think economically there are a few really simple, very black and white ways to try and justify the price. If you can't see that that is going to be possible, then again, mentorship is probably not for you. Okay. If you think you're already doing the very best deals, if you're already getting the very best results and performance,

then economically this might be more difficult to justify. And of course, the more you're going to pay for a mentorship program, the more thought you might need to give to this point. Okay, the second thing then, potential consideration, drawback, is a time commitment, okay? I think it's really important that you understand that effective mentorship requires a significant time commitment from you and a certain amount from your mentor as well. You need to commit to your mentor, okay? You need to sit down and get to the sessions. You need to put the work in between sessions. If you don't, you're not going to be able to implement the advice and the guidance that you're given. You're not going to get the results. Okay. At the end of the day, a good mentor is a guide. They're a steer. They are not going to get the results for you. You're not employing somebody to work in your business. They are not going to go out and roll their sleeves up and do it for you. You have to do it. And I think a lot of people do roll into mentorship programs without really thinking about this. And I think that they,

Andy Graham (32:36.782)
think a mentor is going to make it a lot easier, they’re not. A mentorship is going to point it out and make it faster. Okay. And give you more confidence, maybe save you costs, but a mentor is not going to do the work for you. You still have to do that. So you need to be prepared whenever you do decide to commit to a mentor that the time is right. And that is why timing, when you're thinking about taking mentor on is really, really, really important. And the last thing is how do you pick the right mentor? This is a big, big decision. Now.

I think it's really important on a personal level, you feel like you click with someone, you resonate with somebody. You need to feel like you trust them implicitly. Have you heard enough about them? Have you digested their content or information before either free or paid? Do you have a good understanding and idea as to how this individual operates and delivers information? Do you have a good idea as to how that mentorship experience is going to be?

Do you understand what they've actually achieved? Have they won awards? Have they actually built portfolios? Are they doing projects actively? Okay. Understanding all of this stuff and making sure that it's the right fit for you is really, really important. Please, please, please, please don't just pick a mentor because they've got the most followers on social media. That is absolutely how to get this wrong. I can guarantee it. Some of the most successful people I know don't have any followers on social media because it's just not their thing. They just don't need it. So please.

Really think about that. And then it's of course, important to do the due diligence. Ask the questions, okay? It's important to do that due diligence. Ask the questions. Look for the verification that they are the right person, that they are capable, that they have done what they've said. How much experience do they have in the property market? Are they actively engaged in the property market? Are they doing deals? Are they working with other mentors? Can you get references? Can you speak to people? Can you see their results? What sort of a reputation do they have there out in the industry? Do people respect them? Is the bad stuff said and written about them?

How public are they? Are they pretty transparent? Can you see what's going on? I like that. I like to see complete transparency. I think there's a certain degree of commitment that people often will make to being incredibly transparent of what they're doing. And I think that just makes it really, really easy to see and understand them and what they've achieved. What sort of a breadth of experience do they have? I think that this is so important. Somebody with, let's say, five years experience working in professional HMOs in Plymouth or Portsmouth, how much experience do they really have?

Andy Graham (34:58.478)
to take and impart to you or somebody else who wants to maybe invest in student properties in the Northwest or to rent to rent. It's really important that that breadth of experience is there. I'd also argue that five years, whilst they might be ahead of you, do they really understand the curve of long -term performance of HMOs? It's one thing buying a HMO, getting it set up, getting it under management. It's another thing than long -term managing an asset, long -term building and designing a business that suits the life and the lifestyle that you want. There's a lot more to think about beyond the five year point. It's really important that you're working with someone who is highlighting this stuff and sharing from experience. Okay. I think it's also really important that whoever you work with is able to apply a broad experience from a number of areas, from experience of working with a number of people to help design and assist you with your personal scenario and objective.

Do they have a good track record of performance with other people? Have their mentees and students won any awards? Ours have by the way, but all these sorts of things and look, there's important questions that you need to ask there. Okay. You've got to make sure you do this stuff. Please, like I said, don't go and just pick someone cause they've got the most followers on social media. Now, if you perhaps sort of listen to today's episode and think, sounds good, but I just don't think I'm ready for this. I'm not ready for the cost of the time commitment. I'm not even really sure whether.

I want to do this yet, then maybe the timing's not right for you. Of course, take advantage of alternatives to traditional mentorship. So books and online resources, there's free stuff, the podcast you hear listening to this today, the HMO roadmap's a really great option. The HMO roadmap, just it's 48 pound a month and it's a huge, huge, huge vault of information in bite -sized sort of video lessons and downloadable resources and all of that stuff. So you can work through it in your own time. It's a fraction of the cost of mentorship. Great for people who

aren't ready for mentorship yet, but when they are ready to step up into mentorship, they've got all that foundation knowledge. They've got all the support and tools digitally available to then enhance the mentorship. So that actually when you come to application and taking action, actually implementing stuff, you've got a huge advantage. You're already well along the way. That's essentially what the HMO roadmap is all about, but take advantage of these other tools that are out there. Don't just jump straight to mentorship because you think that that's the only way to get results faster. It's not.

Andy Graham (37:17.87)
but it is one way to really enhance it, like I've said. So there we go. Let me just recap. Let's walk through the, I suppose the benefits, the pros of potentially working with a mentor. The first one was accelerated learning. The second one was avoiding mistakes, time mistakes, costly mistakes. The third was personalized guidance. You're not going to get that from books or podcasts or even group training programs or masterminds. The fourth, accountability, so important. The fifth,focus the single most important one, as far as I'm concerned. Number six, encouragement and motivation. It's a tough game. You'll be slogging it. It's nice to have someone on your side. Benefits of association number seven and number eight, network expansion. Hope I added them up right. I may have miscounted there. And then of course some big considerations, maybe drawbacks. I'm not sure the drawbacks, but they're definitely considerations. Cost of mentorship program, the time commitment to a mentorship program.

And by the way,if you're expecting to get results with any mentor within a matter of two or three months, this is the wrong thing for you. It takes at least six months to see any tangible results of working with a mentor when it comes to property. And that's because it just takes time to do things in property, right? And then of course, picking the right mentor. There are a lot of sharks out there. There's a lot of people who will take your money and give you very little for it. I'm not going to name any names. I've not got any personal experience with them. By the way, I've always chosen right.

But it's important that you do your due diligence and you take all those things I said into consideration. So there we are guys. Look, I think to summarize my thoughts on mentorship, it can be an incredible tool and way to help accelerate the process of achieving your objective to getting better results, achieving more and less time. It can make the whole process much more enjoyable. It can save you hundreds of thousands of pounds in some instances. And for me, it's just an absolute no brainer, but the timing has to be right. And the individual and the person has to be right. If you want to find out more about my mentorship program, head on over to thehmoroadmap.co.uk.

There's a page there in a section for leveling up. Under there you'll see mentorship and you can read a little bit more about my mentorship program. My program isn't for everybody. I like to work with people who are incredibly committed, who are able to get going very quickly. So I've got a certain amount of resource at hand. My mentorship program won't be the cheapest and it won't be the most expensive, but I think it's the right value in terms of what I offer. And I think it's fair.

Andy Graham (39:36.782)
I also work with a small number of people. So there's a very finite number of spaces on my mentorship program at any one time. And that is so I can quite simply give all of my mentees the attention that they need. I really like to be a part of their business. And in many cases, I've been working with people for years, come on, join the program for six months. And I've been working with some of them for nearly four years. So that I think speaks a lot about the sorts of relationships that I like to build. If you want to just come get in, get out of mentorship program, I might not be the right sort of person for you, but.

Anyway, it's all there on the website, thehmoroadmap.co.uk. Look for the level up tab and down there, there's a drop down for mentorship services. That's it for today's episode guys. Thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you again for all of your support from our listeners, from our community members. I'm on an absolute high winning best content provider and getting highly commended award for best mentor and training provider. When I sort of started the podcast and start to build the roadmap three years ago, never did I think that we would be able to take on, not just take on and challenge, but actually win, beat some of the biggest training companies and content producers in our industry to these sorts of awards. I'm so incredibly grateful.

That's it guys. Thank you for tuning in. Don't forget, if you do want to level things up, you're not ready for mentorship just yet, the HMO roadmap is there and waiting for you. Super flexible, super accessible. Join today, quit tomorrow if it's not right for you.

costs you less than a cup of coffee every single day. And I promise you will be shocked, gobsmacked in the best possible way when you see what is available inside for you to take advantage of. Before you go, I've got one last request. If you've got 30 seconds to spare, please, please, please leave a really quick review of the show. I know I ask regularly, but it does help more than you could possibly know. It helps continue to bring great guests onto the show so you don't have to listen to me drone on week in, week out.

And it also helps continue to spread the message about all the great work that you guys, our listeners and our community members are doing for the HMO industry as well. We have to do this together. We talked about this at the HMO awards on the expert panel that I hosted. It is so important, more so now than ever, as we stare down the barrel of the Labour government that we stick together and we really fly the flag for the HMO industry. Leave a quick review. It helps spread the message of the podcast. It helps reach new listeners. It helps encourage other people.

Andy Graham (41:59.726)
to get involved in the HMO industry, to do more in the HMO industry. And that is all good stuff. It's the sort of stuff that we are trying to achieve. That is all part of our mission. Thank you so much. That's it guys. Thank you once again. And don't forget that I'll be right back here in the very same place next week. So please join me then for another installment of the HMO podcast.